The Denial of Creation's Divinity and Absolute Love

This is not an attempt to sway the non-believer. I find my belief enriches my life. If it is not so for you, then it is not to me to stand in the way of that choice. Rather this is more directed at the believer who would deny the inherent divinity in all things and in so doing deny love to any.

The Denial of Creation's Divinity

1) The Creations and Creator are One and the Same. Like a parent to a child, the living essence in these shared. Nothing can be apart from the Creator that has been Created.

2) Believing otherwise not only denigrates the Believer but every other Living Thing as it denies the Divinity inherent in all Creation.

Thus...

The Denial of Absolute Love

1) To Deny any part of the Creation is to Deny the same in the Creator.

2)To Love the Creator is to Love all of Creation without exception. This is Absolute Love.

reply to post by TravelerintheDark

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What exactly do you mean by "the Creation"?

I would also like to ask for your personal denomination. I see my self as having no MAN MADE religion, but seeing a spiritual connection between all living things. I do believe in evolution, I do believe in souls, and I also think everyone and everything has the potential of having karma. So what exactly is your point of this? Are you trying to state facts that, if one is a believer they should already know?

cool thread, To add to your little list, I think it also defies common sense and logic to deny the idea that the only difference between creator and created, is perception. Anything other than the absolute singular source is just illusory concepts that particularization labels for its re understanding of experience.
An endless sea of infinite awakenings...
...ek ong kar...

ॐ

[edit on 11/22/2008 by psychedeliack]

i agree we are all made from hydrogen from the big bang which made the satrs which made everything else we are built from

i think we differ on the creator having a conciousness though

no dicinity in my version sorry

I find myself agreeing with the OP, the biggest lie of manmade religions is that divinity is above us, that we must grovel to it (via the assholes that claim to represent it). No, divinity is within, we are a part of god, and to deny it is to embrace entropy, to slowly fade away, which is what I think is happening with our elite. Fear and love, light and dark, entropy and order and yin and yang are just other words for saying to be a part of the godmind or to be falling from it. We have one fundamental choice, which is to embrace the positive energies of creation (no institution required btw) or to embrace the negative energies of destruction. This choice will affect everything in our lives over time, and is the diference between health, beauty and belonging and being consumed by a meaningless existence.

Look within yourselves to see if this rings true for you too.

reply to post by Zepherian

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I found that, that, creator force is not beholding to religions or to science. There are those among us who demand proof that will never avail itself, because it was never intended. They will never find the proof within, because it does not reside there, and never will, until they ask. And for some its a sure bet it never will because of arrogance and an oath they took.
They can only go threw life half full and no expectation of anything more.
When they made the deal, and sold their soul, they cut themselves off of the inner knowledge, inner love. Its really a shame, they ramble threw life spouting the same line, believing there is nothing higher than themselves, no one to thank, no one to appreciate, where love is bought and paid for.
In the end, they are the real looser. Enjoy your new vehicles, new houses, fantastic job, now, for in the end, there will be nothing for you

YouTube Link

[edit on 22-11-2008 by All Seeing Eye]

No need to be mean. I have a new viehicle too that I actually quite enjoy... I have never been of the mind that one has to be totally destitute to enjoy spirituality and that materialism is necesserily evil.

Imo it's all about balance. You are born into this life with unlimited potential, and it sort of molds itself around your decisions. Everything in my life has been a direct result of the expectations I had of it, and then I realise that if I change the expectations I change the life. So in the end it's all about personal choice. Perhaps there is truth to the duat tale, that after life we are confronted with the choices we make, as part of our spiritual evolution within the godmind perhaps. I think we could be part of creation, and as such we are encouraged to create, to have a life, to prosper, to add to complexity, not entropy. So it's not just about adoring god, it's about enhancing his ability to create, by being a viehicle for it.

In this context your life is a painting, and I personally don't think it's about restricting what you experience, just as long as you don't hurt others knowingly, because in this scenario, you are probably just hurting yourselves, and later will be confronted with that pain by other parts of the god mind concept, which would be an interesting way to think of karma.

Another thing I will add is that faith is a sort of key. To access this deeper knowledge of one's self, one has to at least believe it is possible. The inner sanctuary will never spontaneausly open up, the holder has to look for it, which kinda makes sense.

[edit on 22-11-2008 by Zepherian]

god is the ocean and we are all drips from that ocean.i dont believe you go to hell regardless of what you do!you pay the price for your decisions instantly no need for further punishment .totally agree with the op i may aswell have wrote it.

To Good Wolf: All form and matter. Existence itself.

To Lokey13: No denomination.

To noobfun: Thank you for illustrating a level of consensus, as acceptance of common origin, with or without the belief in a Creator, can go a long way in promoting tolerance as an objective standard.

reply to post by TravelerintheDark

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While is a beautiful way to explain and express spirituality and the understanding of personal unification with a creator many will no understand that this is a personal opinion.

Now, I wonder if this your personal opinion of one that is shared by the people you worship with, it sounds quite progressive.

reply to post by marg6043

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Thank you for that question as it gave me reason to consider how best to answer in a way that fits a more complete sense of understanding.

The answer is yes. But then I would say that every step I take is an act of worship and every breath a prayer. In this way, insomuch as I share the understanding with others, we all worship together.

But in the sense of a physical organization, the answer is also no. I'm not a member of any one faith more than another and belong to no church, temple or mosque.

Then I will have to said that I still find the explanation of the way you see your unification with a creator very beautiful and honest.

I also believe in a creator but I do not follow any religious believes but I base my spirituality as what I find to be true deeply in my hart.

You make your case, but it is only an opinion.
We are not God. We are not God inside either.

God is NOT His creation, because He created everything, and everything He creates is created; hence, that which is created was created by someone, and that someone that created is not His own creation.

Nothing is God but God. Nothing can be God but God. To say it any other way is antichristian in nature!
If I make something is it me?
NO!
What I make is NOT me.
The same goes true for God.
What God has made is not Him.
It may be a result of Him thinking about it, but it still is not HIM!

God is above all that He creates. God is also above all His created Humans!
We are not God, because we are created!
And, God is not in anyone until they accept HIM into their heart.

Jesus Christ is this God, and it is Christ Jesus that has created all things!
Are you Christ Jesus?
NO!
You are not Christ Jesus!
There is only ONE Who is Christ Jesus, and Jesus Christ is the ONLY TRUE GOD!
None of us are Jesus, we are HIS creation, and that is where the line is drawn.

The idea that every created thing is divine is a humanistic new age belief that has spawned due to the rejection of the ONE TRUE GOD JESUS CHRIST!

I can see how you would believe such a thing, but I ask you...

Will you come to Jesus for who He is? Or are you going to add flames to the fire of your conspiracy?
The worst conspiracies of all time are those that deny the existence of God, the rejection of Jesus Christ being God, the ideas that we and all created things are God, and that we can discover the God-Mind inside us!

The only way to discover the God-Mind is to trust in Jesus! I would be a liar if I told you anything different!
When you put your faith and trust in Jesus, and ask Jesus to come live inside of you, then THAT is WHEN God's MIND enters you!
Before Christ comes to live in you God is nowhere in you in any way!

You must accept Christ for God's Mind and Spirit to be able to be IN you!
Without Christ God is only outside of you!
If, in this state of mind of not having God inside of you, you begin to think God is in you, and that you are a part of God, or an extension of God, you are deceiving yourself!

You must come forward to Jesus Christ, because not only will He come to live inside you, but He will CHANGE YOU in such a way as to make you a NEW CREATURE!
Accepting Christ moves Christ to change you into a new being and a new creature!
What did God create on the 8th day?
He created new creatures that will be able to live WITH HIM for eternity!
God made NEW CREATURES on the 8th day!

Imagine becoming a new creature and then living with Jesus Christ for eternity!
Nothing you can even dream of can compare to what will be waiting for you when you are finally with Jesus!
Everything you will experience with Jesus in heaven will be nothing but Holiness, Righteousness, and love!!!

reply to post by SaintlyMic

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I don't often find myself agreeing with Christians on this board, but you have this absolutely right: to equate Creation with Creator is to say that a table is the same as a carpenter.

You might find it interesting to contemplate the following Thomist proof of the existence of God:

1. Entities in the world exist in varying degrees of perfection. This implies the existence of absolute perfection, a Platonic Ideal of Perfection.
   
   
2. This absolutely perfect entity must be God. All that is not God is imperfect to some degree.
   

Now, OP: do you think of the Creator as perfect, or flawed?

What about Creation, then? Perfect, or flawed?

I think most people would agree that Creation is flawed; there is evil in the world, and no-one ever gets his heart's desire, or if he does get it, it soon cloys and his heart begins to desire something else.

But if Creation is the same as the Creator, then the Creator is flawed, too.

Therefore, either the Creator is flawed, as the Manichees believed, and therefore not God; or else Creation is flawless and death, bereavement, disease, pain, suffering and evil are not fundamentally different from life, love, health, pleasure and good.

Could you live with that? Do you believe it?

[edit on 24-11-2008 by Astyanax]

SaintlyMic, Astyanax: Nope. I consider we are part of God, God is the same as creation, a living energy field. To deny God is to reduce our energy, to embrace entropy, to die. To "find" God is to see the power of our connection to divinity and accept our unlimited potential.

To say otherwise is to fall into the same trap top down authoritarian mind leech religions have set for mankind over millenia now. Humans don't need divine validation, they need a divine, and personal connection. I'm sorry if this ruins the business of the McChurches, but this is just how it is. As far as I can tell.

Jesus Myths, Sin, Sacraments and all manner of missguided beliefs and silly rituals are just ploys to keep people from realising the power of Love. I am sorry if I offend anyone here, and no way do I want to make people feel bad about themselves or even change their behaviour if they are happy with it, but I would like them to consider the full implication of what I am telling people here.

Love is God. God is conscious energy. Energy is everything. This is the fundamental truth, imho. To know this is not to know God, or even to be "his". That takes time. It's just knowing where to find him. Everywhere.

Thank you for giving me a point to consider. Though saying the Creation and the Creator are One and the Same is not to say that any one individual element is in and of itself the Creator, but rather that the whole is, as a whole and in this way can not be separated.

Just as the table will always be of the carpenter's making and as such a small part unto him. The table is not the carpenter, and the carpenter not the table. But it is formed from that will, and inherent in that are the gross and subtle forces applied.

As his hands have touched and shaped it, so it has become a part of him as his work.

Does he then cast it away when the work is finished? Or rather put it to it's use to let the table do its work.

But then the table itself...

Is the table perfect? I would say that it may or may not be, insofar as I can judge that it serves its purpose. What I can say with certainty is that it is perfectly a table. Just as we are not perfect humans, but rather perfectly human. Just as the Creation need not be perfect in its elements, but rather in its whole, it is a perfect creation.

Is the room the table sits in complete with simply a table? Could the room be called perfect with only the table in it? That would certainly depend on the function not just of the table, but of the room itself.

And then too, what of the tree the table was formed of?

To separate the parts and point to one to say it is not perfect is to me a vision incomplete.

It appears the edit button was lost in the move. I'd like to make an addendum to the last line.

"To separate the parts and point to one to say it is not perfect is to me a vision incomplete."

Which should say...

To separate the parts and point to any to say it is not perfect, therefore the whole is not perfect, is to me a vision incomplete.

To Astyanax and SaintlyMic: While I agree with both of you to an extent, the analogy of what we make being us compared to the Creator's unity with Creation is far too limited. The picture is much, much bigger than that.




And thank you to marg6043 and psychedeliack for the compliments.