I found this website quite a while ago.

The Tithing Lie

This subject is very important to me, mostly because it proves the Bible to be right on the fact that the love of money is the root of all evil (as if looking at todays society has'nt proved that).

The love of money is so evil, that it has been one of the major factors in the death of the church, it's so sad that churches have just become as useful and valuable as a bar.

TPTB have twisted and manipulated the WORD so badly, it's just disgusting .

So here we go, I'm going to probably be posting a lot of links that are in sync with what the Spirit has told me, it's the same thing that He has been telling you, but you've probably been jaded to it.

You know, so many pastors these days are telling you lies, that's why it's so important to read THE WORD, don't just take some charlatans word for it, some man in a suit on a stage.

-Jimmy

Well, I agree with what you are saying in principle. However, it is not money itself that is evil, but the lust thereof. The lust of money is indeed evil and can cause evil acts.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

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True, the lust of anything that is not of God is evil.

I you desire to serve God, then you desire to help your fellow man, you desire to sacrifice yourself for others, money will become just a piece of paper, good for nothing (it's getting to be that way anyways).

To me, the only purpose money has in my life is to feed me and to feed others, other than that, I don't care one bit about how much I get, as long as I have enough to survive.

The world revolves around money, it's so sad what humanity has become.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm starting to lose hope in the church and in humanity. Somehow though, I still have faith that lives can change, that people have not become completely hardened to the Truth.

-Jimmy

Honestly, the "church" has been corrupt since 325 A.D... The whole Ncean Council threw true Christianity into a tailspin which hasn't stopped yet. As far as humanity goes, well,.....what can you say?

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

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Ah, yes, someone else who "gets it", good to know I'm not alone, however, I betcha there are some things we do not agree on at all.
I believe that we should bless those who curse us, feed and clothe our enemies, love no matter what the cost. Now I got to say, I don't follow my beliefs that much at all, I wish I did though, yah yah, I know, I'm the only person stopping me.

The thing is, it's so hard to "witness" (I hate using Christianese, slang/lingo) to people about the TRUTH when there is so many lies out there.

-Jimmy

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

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True, and the "truths" you do hear are only half-truths.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

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may i ask if you sacrafice an equal or greater amount of time to reading the bible and worship than you do sacrificing time and energy into you job, or watching television, or computers on a daily basis? monks are the only people i can think of that sacrifice more time to God than anything else, if you can honestly say you spend more time reading scripture than things like making a dollar so u can afford internet access then i will kiss your foot.
so yes, money would be the root of evil because in order to make any u must sacrifice to it more than u do to God.
by the way...yes i am a believer in God. no i do not sacrifice to him more than i do these other things, no i do not know how to fix it.

reply to post by Enigma Publius

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Hey I'm not trying to hate on people because we are'nt doing what we should, I'm just fed up with the fact that we are being taught that the life style we live is right, when it's not.

I wish I would spend my entire life's time devoted to God, the closest people I can think of that do that are missionaries, many of hem have given up there lives just so that others can have at least an once of the Truth.

-Jimmy

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

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yes....on review of my post it seemed rather impersonal, my honest apology. shame on me, i need to do better than that, it does not help our mutual cause whatsoever. i agree with what you have said, and once again i am sorry brother. i am quite upset with myself right now.

reply to post by Enigma Publius

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Hey man, we need to remember, we're still human, we make mistakes, that's what grace and forgivness is for.
You didn't insult me or cut me down or anything, I took your question as honest and true.

-Jimmy

I do not follow any religion. The text and stories that the faiths are based on are archaic translations of translations of translations made my the most scholared people of the time.
One of the books is the "King James Bible". That statement, embossed on the cover of the book itself, is telling by itself. That alone tells you that it is not the true work, rather a commission of a one-sided view.
Next, lets look at the commandments. In the bible, any Judeo-Christian bible will do, there are 10 commandments that are to be followed. However, the God of Moses did not hand down 10 commandments. It was more like 100 or more commandments. What happened to the rest of them? Some of them are spread out through the bible as God's laws, but most of them did not even make the cut. The reason is supposed that it is because they are, by the modern times of the writing of the bible, considered archaic and unpracticed disciplines of faith. Wow. So, this is yet another skew of the text. Basically, they just cut and paste what they think is important into the tome and let the rest fade into obscurity. If faith and following of God's word is so important and the only true law over mankind, then how can it be toyed with so offhanded? Does that mean that when it comes to law, we are allowed to obey what we want and toss the rest?
I promise I am getting to a point.

So, the examples above are just a few, but they lead on to the ongoing corruption of the church. When man has made a decision to pick and choose what to follow and what to ignore, then corruption and chaos insue. The bible says "the borrower is slave to the lender" which is just one teaching about how the misuse and worship of money leads to corrupt control. Jesus cast the merchants down from the steps because they were corrupt in their fiscal dealings. When Moses accended the mount, the people began to worship a golden calf and were punished by God.

Tithing, by my own experience, has been heralded as paying your due to God. God does not need money. Tithing is a way in which the priest can afford to live, the church can maintain its structure and funds can be used to help those in need. On top of that, churches pay no taxes, so they are allowed to spend 100% of the money where needed. I agree with all of these reasons for making donations to the church. I do not agree that a person should be chastised or threatened with damnation if they choose not to do so. Tithing is a donation to a charitable organization, no different than the Red Cross, Salvation Army or those people who feed the kids in Africa and Haiti. It should be revered as such and appreciated.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

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I wouldn't say that the love of money is the root of all evil since some evil things done have nothing to do with money.

I would say that the love of money is the root of all corruption.

I once asked the pastor of the "church i used to goto" what happens with the tithe that goes to the church. I ask in what respect does it go to help the comunity or the congregation he told me it spent the way that the Board of the church sees fit for it to be spent. i notice that most of the weeks tithe is given in excess of about 3000.00 + this bothered me so i asked my uncle since he was on the board and exspressed my concern he said i shouldn't worry about it. this made me mad so i confronted the pastor again asking him since he had a fulltime job as an engineer why was he collecting a salary from the church he got furrious as so i did and that lead to one very load conversation. I told him that he was not fulfilling his duties as a pastor to recieve a salary from the church. meaning that if i have a problem that i should be able to call on him for spiritial guidaince at any time. he told me that he was not at the beck and call of the congregation, and that set me off and the last time i attended service. I'm still a believer, but i don't associate myself with this kind of thigs anymore. this was not the only church that this has happen to me before. by the way 2 weeks later he was missing from the church with all the churches savings but enough to pay church expenses with was about 100,000.00

A "preacher" is supposed to have a regular job. The "tithes" are supposed to go to 1) widows, orphans, and other people that need help, and 2) Spreading the gospel to people who have not heard it.

Anything else, and you are shortchanging God, I would think.

I think it ought to be LAW for EVERY church to have to post the pay of the minister, and how much they spend feeding and clothing widows and orphans RIGHT BEHIND where the preacher preaches every Sunday.

Honestly. I had to chuckle when I heard the Pope say the other day money was evil and our economies built on sand.

The Vaticans enormous riches are unfathomable. Can you say Vatican bank scandal?
The kettle calling the pot black.

reply to post by wheresthetruth

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wheresthetruth,
I have been a private contractor for a local church in my community, I have done literally thousands of dollars of renovations and upgrades to the churches facilities. Which is kind of the point you were making.
The one thing I do not understand is "Why would the church instruct me to create offices, a new band stage and a confession center to have it all torn down with in a year?"
If you ask me with the experiences I have had working with the faculty of the church, it is a blatant waste of $ and efforts.
I am an atheist, I do not go to church and I don't pray to a god, therefore, I personally believe the church faculties gather to their chambers and come up with these so called "Upgrades" to entice peoples to flow from one facility to another.
The church I am speaking of has a real group band, complete with electric guitars and drums, key boards and singer's, they sell CDs of their groups and also have a coffee cafeteria right in the church where there is more monies to be made.
From what I have discovered about this particular church, they pull in approximately 17K to 24K a month. They have approximately 2K parishioner's and are on the rise. My sister goes to this church and says the offering trays have to be emptied at least 6 times during the weekends services, which they have 4 times every weekend, including Saturdays as well! That's a bit overboard if you ask me.
The Pastor drives a new Hummer and his associates drive nothing older than the previous years cars, the only one that isn't showing sign's of reward is the maintenance man. He also the head of the race team the church has for their own race car.Sounds shady if you ask me, too much money and way too much bling for a church.

Well, that is all I have to add for the relativity for the church and it's association of financial gain and tithing reason.

Ah yes. The good old double shakedown. Back in my day they did not go beyond two for a special secondary purpose. Apparently things have changed.
I remember one year when I was 14 I tithed more than my Dad with my paper route money. The priest called him on it at the end of the year. He was pissed at me lol.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

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hello

Tithes are not required

the tithes in the OT operated generally around the priesthood and the temple.

Christ did away with all of that. Churches as they stand today are not biblical. Paul collected money for the needy but these were gifts, not obligatory.

Christ said sell all you have and give it to the needy, he didn't say oh and i need my cut. My own opinion is that organised religion and anyone demanding a tithe is out of order.

YouTube Link

[edit on 9-10-2008 by drevill]

reply to post by Allred5923

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More and more in larger cities, you see this new monstrocity called the MegaChurch. These things are built on the grounds that they make the act of going to church more enjoyable, like going to the mall. Well, they definitely have one thing in common with the average mall...they are just there to bilk as much money from the parish pockets as possible.
When you said that they had you build rooms just to have the torn down a year later, it reminded me of how come of the churches in my area act. They start off small and work hard to "spread the faith" and welcome as many people as possible into their house. More people = more money. Once they have increased their weekly income enough, it is not long before there is a tract of land being cleared with a large sign stating something like "New Home of the Church of Gotta-Get-Mo-Dough". The next church always dwarfs the previous one and is technologically more advanced. The priests drive around in top luxury cars, wear the best suits, rolex watches, diamond rings. While the people sit in awe of this charlatan, they keep handing over their hard earned money hoping that by taking a little extra out of the food category, God will provide more food for them. Sorry, but this aint the banks of the river and Jesus quit dividing loaves and fishes over a thousand years ago.

It cheeses me off when I see a supposed holy man living a life of earthly divinity while preaching that his congregation has to give more. Heck, he should just phone it in from Monte Carlo, which is probably what he would rather be doing anyway.

As to the Pope casting money as the root of all evil, give me a break. First, that is common knowledge, so nothing new there. Second, Vatican City is a very corrupt and financially evil empire unto itself. Harry Houdini must have studied under theology, because his motto was slight of hand and misdirection. Thats all the church does, slight of hand and misdirection on a global scale.

S&F for you JJB!!! thank you for posting this! I will agree with the youtube vid as well. Being a christian and servant going on 30 years and have been in small to medium churches, it has been my experience that all of them 'required' a tithe.

Interestingly enough, there are only 2 methods I've chosen over the 30 years when paying 'tithes' to the church. 1). I ask Father how much HE wants me to give or (2). I give what I 'feel' that would I'd would be able to give joyfully. 90% of the time, it has NEVER come up to 10% every time. Sometimes, and more often than not, He asks for more because He knew what was needed for me and for the body. ONLY on 1(one) occasion in 30 years did he EVER require me to give a full paycheck. Even in the face of having to pay rent, food, utilities, etc. not to mention a marriage on the rocks, in which the wife had decided to not to follow the Lord. (STRESS) Later that year, it was returned to me 3 fold in one paycheck. As I opened the envelope and looked at the amount, the Lord said.."I appreciate your obedience in giving" Obedience is better than sacrifice.

Now, when I gave that much, it was pure obedience, I never did think 'God will compensate me later.. " he was silent when he instructed me to do so.

I completely and whole heatedly believe that the Church is/has been, falling back into the days of Jesus whipping the money changers out of the court of the gentiles (saved for another discussion) I was asked a while ago to preach with some other brothers on a Sunday night using Acts chapter 2. Getting before the Lord to ask what He wanted to say, God said, "THAT chapter is my blueprint of what I desire how the church to be conducted, even to the very day of my return"

Here's what I think/believe is what should be happening with ALL the currency/possessions that is brought into the hands of the church. It's Acts Chapter 2 all over again. When each believer brings anything to the body to shared, it s/b gathered, stored, and distributed amongst those that are widows, orphans, and believers that can't not make ends meet.

All 'fund raising' in each dept s/b treated the same way. Yep! I said it. Why? What about youth groups that need money to go on 'special' trips? Good question. My answer to that is~ what are we teaching them by taking them to a swim park and having fun? How about teaching them the principles of helping those that can not help themselves. The reward they will receive won't be in $ value, as it would putting integrity, and self-esteem back into them KNOWING they could have been in that spot as well, but, a church decided that it was more important to share the wealth of the world with the poor of the world.

That, is the lesson we should be teaching to every believer. In all the preaching/teaching I've done, I've never taught on 'tithing' .. maybe now I know why.

So it goes back to the age old question: If a man with a family took a bullet for you and died, but you survived because if it. What would you return back to his family for being grateful you lived?


Yep! If Jesus didn't give his life, and make such a HUGE sacrifice, then the return wouldn't be what we have today as believers. We'd still be men most miserable.