Anti-sematism on ATS should not be tolerated.

Still, if the only thing the people these theorizers have identified as being members of this cabal have in common would be that they are of Jewish descent ?

they might be oversimplifying, I personally believe there is a conspiracy which happens to have a disproportionately large amount of Zionists at the heart of it, so if I wanted to sum it up in a few words it'd be easy to shorten it down to 'the Jewish conspiracy'. But I want to make clear I do make a clear distinction between a Zionist and a Jewish person.

But it is not self-evident when just looking at a Jewish person wether or not he is Zionist, so I can imagine a lot of people distrust the apple basket, because they fear the bad apples..

And no, I'm not advocating to hurt or kill those people.. they are tools used by the creator or by fate I guess, to bring about that which is inevitable anyway. (yeah, I'm a fatalist I'm afraid)

I often catch myself thinking the planet would be better off without us, anyway.. and everybody has to die, at least I'll die in interesting times

*edit for added content*

I don't believe all Zionists are Evil Powerhungry SOB's, either.. I'm sure the majority are simple people dreaming of their ideal world without resorting to conspiring to attain it.. just needed to add this because otherwise I'd be speaking out of context again..

once more, a case of the bad apples in the basket..

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Phatcat]

Yes but, to take your example, why should anyone call it a Jewish conspiracy when the issue is with Zionists? Not all Zionists are Jews and not all Jews are Zionists. If someone's argument is expressed through over-simplification, who does that serve? It does their actual argument no favours as they are then saying one thing but allegedly meaning another, which leads to all manner of confusion and suspicion. Neither does it do any favours for the people that are being unfairly grouped with another demographic entirely.

EDIT to reply to your edit. This illustrates the problem I outlined earlier though. First it was Jews, then 'not really Jews but Zionists', then 'OK, not all the Zionists either'. If you don't think all Zionists are a problem then it's not even a Zionist conspiracy per se.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

No. It wouldnt mean "all" Jewish people would have to be in on it.

And, I want to make it clear right now that I am not arguing for the fact that there IS a Jewish cabal, I am addressing the logic only as this is incorrect.

All it would require is that the members of the cabal all be Jewish, OR that they are all promoting an agenda that was favorable to Jews over other ethnic groups.

The fact that all white supremacists promote an agenda of differential treatment of whites as opposed to other ethnic groups does not mean that ALL whites are white supremacists. Nor, oddly enough, does it mean that all white supremacists are white.

The whole concept of who belongs to what group in "some or all" statements in logic is something that has to be understood in order to make sense of the kinds of statements you are making.

"All pumpkins are vegetables" is not equivalent to "all vegetables are pumpkins."




Dont argue expecting the racist person to change their mind. Argue so that other readers do not see racism go unchallenged and so that they can judge for themselves the relative logic of the two arguments.

I dont expect someone who is deeply prejudiced to change their mind. That kind of prejudice is rarely based in logic, and so I dont expect logic to touch it. My foster mother for instance, really, really, disliked Japanese people. And, it spilled onto anyone who might be Japanese as well. Which was uncomfortable for me because, growing up in Hawaii, I had quite a few friends I could not have over to my house. Or if they did come over, it was uncomfortable for everyone.

There was no reasoning with her, however. She lived near Pearl Harbor when it was bombed. Her mother went into labor and died in the confusion of the attack being unable to get medical attention. She saw Japanese neighbors get up on their roofs and wave the rising sun flags so that they wouldnt be bombed. She never got over that. I think it is unfortunate that she couldnt, it certainly was illogical, but her hatred was not founded in logic. It was founded in grief, and in fear, and in a sense of betrayal by her neighbors.

I dont argue against racism for people like my foster mother. What could I ever say that could undo that kind of emotional pain? I might try, but I dont expect them to change. I argue because not everyone out there has a strong emotional reason to feel the way some racist feel. Most people in the borderline are NOT deeply wounded, they are accustomed to thinking a certain way, out of habit only. Those people you have the chance to impact.

Some people arent racist at all, but are simply taking it all in as spectators. I dont want them to get the impression that racism is what everyone believes, just because the loudest people may espouse it. I argue against it because people need to see that the majority do not feel that way. That they dont have to chose that side unless they want to. That there is support for those who might wish to say, "I dont believe that" when if no one said anything against it, they might be afraid to dissent on their own.

I haven't been invited on any secret meetings of secret cabals, so I cannot say who is or is not involved. I cannot say how they call themselves, as far as I know they could refer to themselves as the Satanistic Bankers of Doomsday..

The same names keep popping up over and over again, like the Rothshilds, the Rockefellers, the Warburgs, the Loebs etc.

Does this make it a Zionistic conspiracy ? I dunnow.. but it is a fact they are heavily involved with Zionism, so, again, maybe an oversimplification..

Illusionsaregrander , your post made a lot of sense, indeed.. thanks for sharing your thoughts, enjoyed reading it. star for you, I hope many people do read it!

I really would like a Jewish ATS member to address my question on Page 6 - if it's not too much to ask of course. The question is genuine and I would like it clarified. The only answer I have gotten so far is from another member who suggests it's not popular question to ask - which only serves to intrigue me even further.

IRM

reply to post by Stormdancer777

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They already had their witchhunt. More pagans were killed by the Church than any other genocide in history. If you thought Jews had it bad.. try being pagan during those times!

[sorry in advance, i haven't read the whole thread, just had to say]



a conspiracy of people where the one uniting factor of those that seem to be involved is their religion will be named after that trait, thus the banking conspiracies can as easily be refered to as jewish conspiracies. this does not suggest all jews are involved in the same way that it doesn't mean the local bank clerk is involved. if you believe it does it is based on your ignorance, not others.

no, 6 million jews died, don't the other undesirables count?

gimme a break, if the nazis had won hitler would be a hero. history is written by the victors, hitler was no worse than many politicians of the era and better than some.

this is a conspiracy site, if people believe a conspiracy took place this should be examined. it's no more ridiculous than saying there are civilisations on the moon ffs, why not discuss the argument, if the theory is rubbish it'll be trashed by the intelligent membership.



i honestly haven't seen a single one, not one. any chance of a link.

What about all the posts making sport of someone because they are Christians,or bad talk about muslim's or Soviets etc,it's a public forum from all over the world and saying don't talk bad about Jews would be a form of censorship,get over it already,no matter what your opinion is your bound to make someone mad

reply to post by InfaRedMan

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it dosent look like your gonna hve much luck they're all pleading the fith

the answer seems pretty simple, why is a jew required to answer it. you guys need a rabbi? there is a particular form of discrimination against jews, there is name for it. the designation of antisemitism exists because antisemitism exists.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

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In fact, pumpkins aren't even vegetables. They are fruit.


source:vegetablegardens.suite101.com...

Insofar as the subject of 'holocaust' is concerned, if you dare to mention that there were just as many of my kind, the 'disabled', put to death then you are seen as 'anti-semitic' and diluting the effect of the 'historic guilt-trip' that we have all been forced to swallow...

6 million jews died under extreme circumstances....how come there aren't monuments and museums around the world dedicated solely to the many millions of disabled-fallen? or the 15+ million eastern european civilians?

If the Jewish-rich had even half a heart they would have done something positive for their brethren and used their economic/political clout to aid them...but instead they ran away from europe and left the poor to fend for themselves in the camps

The 'poor' were merely pawns during those times, and in death their memory is being used as such yet again

screw monuments and museums, the jewish people got their own country and a free hand, and funding, to oppress the people that lived in the area previously. disabled people should look for their very own country. though i'm not disabled, if i might make a suggestion, i recommend holland, it's flat. so wheel chair accessibility isn't so much of an issue.

the dutch are quite easy going all the same, they're unlikely to throw stones at you so if you really must fire rockets at them you'll need another excuse, they smiled funny in your general direction or something.

Anti sematism is not just referring to jews and it is that assumption and pious attitude that turns a lot of ppl off to the jews. Jews are those who adhere to the laws of Judaism and not a race.. even the Rabbi's state this as fact.

I think it is the special treatment (spawned from a misunderstanding of jews, their God, and their religion) that is mainly pushed by the Zionists that leave a bad taste in ppl's mouth. People, in their ignorance, lump the whole kit and caboodle into one package not realizing that there are Jews who are anti zionism BECAUSE they are pro Judaism. Even they have that ignorant term "anti sematism" thrown at them... and yet they themselves can even be a semite.

What about the Palestenians that our country supports abusing, killing, and pillaging because they have a misunderstanding of prophecies and God? They are semite and yet you never really hear many people getting upset and saying "anti semite" to our country's leaders even though they are indeed displaying the worst kind of anti sematism.

Educate yourself on what is going on. You will actually have to dig because information that depicts this particular truth is FIERCELY suppressed in this country... although, you seem to support their extreme and bias stance.


I am more concerned with the true anti sematism that is going on and it is a certain sect of jews along w/ many evangelical christians that are making sure it is carried out. SHAME

[edit on 29-11-2008 by justamomma]

Just because somebody opposes the ZIONIST agenda and brutality in the world does not make them an anti-Semite. I think pro Zionism should not be tolerated on this website as well.

There is a difference between condemning the actions of particular Jewish people, and condemning Jewish people as a whole.

Unfortunately these days, it seems you can not do the former without someone assuming you are seeking to do the latter.

What is so ironic is that Zionism is very much anti sematism of the worst kind.

Here is a link for the OP (had to find it in my archives).. this should be a good starting place for your education in truth.
www.jewsnotzionists.org...

i agree with thi more censorship is needed.

I notice to often threads that are not relevant to the topic or some type of hate speech in many posts. Members need to start being screened to weed out people who do not belong on ats. Starting with people who are anti semites or those producing rambling commentaries or talk about subjects that are inappropriate.

please mods stop these people from being able to say what they want by using a censor program. perhaps preventing posting by those for 30 days we as users should not be subject to their hate speech or ridiculous ideas about how the world works. the only way to stop them is to ban them.