Well I understand those


Jesus took on the sins of the whole world ..I am sure in flesh and spirit that would be a heavy load (when he was in human form) Sometimes when people even overload me with their troubles I get grieved in the spirit and feel like sometimes I cant go on another day (It wrenches your spirit ) and you do FEEL somewhat seperated from God at those times.
So I can understand what Jesus went through .

The other one about the dead rising .
Well first they didnt crawl out or their graves like in a zombie movie .
They came up out of the grave as in ROSE from the DEAD just like Christ did .
Why is that so hard to understand ? Dont you think that God has that power ?
Do you not believe in God at all ?

Jesus knew he would rise from the dead .So did God know that he would be risen from the dead ..That was the WHOLE POINT to show us that we will also rise from the dead and will be forever free of the earthly fleshly spirit.
The word says we will be changed from corruptable to incorruptable .
We shed off this flesh forever .


Hey Moo would you mind editing your post on the last page please ...
It is stretching the page and it is making it harder to read lol ...Thank you

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

the evil ducks hahah as i was typing it an Eddie izzard show popped into my head where he trys to work out just what an evil duck would act like made me laugh so it got put in

it was a bit harsh maybe but "the devil did it" blanket answers are just retarded and show a total lack of thought or respect to any ones intelegence

back to topic ^^

im gonna skip the whole forsaken me bit it took the whole church 300 years to come to the conclusion jesus was both man and god, not god or man

so the dead returning from the grave they didnt do it like zombie films huh... ok jesus was reserected as a fully functioning human body, physical infact, his body actually got up and wondered around, so other dead people, thier bodies stood up and went for a strole around too right (with the exception of the cries of 'brains brains' and eating people how is it different)

did god heal the decomposition on people who had been dead a while or did only the freshly dead get up?

how does a body getting back up and walking around show that when we die our spirit is seperated from the lump of flesh we use to carry it around? wouldnt everyone coming back as ghosts just without the rattle of chains and going woooooo be better for that?

the message thats showing is your body can live forever on earth if god wills it

wouldnt the spirit coming back and showing how nothing can harm it except the ghostbusters be better?

reply to post by noobfun

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Needless to say Noobfun, i can't find a point of disagreement with you, It is most noteworthy that in relation to thd dead arising from their graves and going to town, there is not one historical account of it.

Nowhere anywhere has anyone rememberd the day that the dead rose fom their graves

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out The graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Josephesus and his ilk who are continually relied upon by christians as some sort of proof merchant mentions not one word, no romans remember it NO ONE remembers the original dawn of the dead !

One assumes that Jerusalem is the aforementioned "Holy City" so one would have assumed that at least one person would remembered the day when the dead walked or flew into Jerusalem ??????

It is inconcievable that the greates power on earth at that time ie Rome, would not act like any other military power before or after it. IE when they hear of poeple walking on water, raising the dead and making the blind see etc, they would not immiediately take a keen interest from a military perspective.
Instead we are told they (the Romans) chose to wash their hands of the potentially greatest military advantage ever and pretend like it never happend.

Interestingly enough and slightly digressing, does not the name Barabas translate into "Son Of God" BA - RA - BAS. ?

So were the Jews asked by Pilate -

"Who shall I release , the annointed one (the king of the Jews) or The son of god ?"

Well I am pretty sure that anyone who even dare said anything like "I saw them" would have been laughed outta town ..Just like yall are doing now .
I believe it is safe to assume that no one wanted to write that down either .
Look how we all react when someone posts something like I met an alien in my room .....Even when you have thousands and thousands of people claiming they met an alien in their room ..Does anyone write that in the Historical books of our days >? No they would not ...

PS by the way I am not one who believes everything that Josephesus wrote .
For one thing as you brought up he left alot out the most important parts of what Christ did ......that makes me suspect of him already .
In fact I have never even read his stuff .


[edit on 12-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

May I politely correct you, I for one am not laughing allthough I do find the alledged evidence and the biblical errors and contradictions laughable.

I think the "I SAW THEM " scenario is a stretch of logic perhaps, at the end of the day should dead people raise from their graves and go through New York for example, a "real" event as is claimed in Matthew, this is somewhat differnt to an individual claiming an alien popped up in their bedroom.

That being said, we currently have to consider things with a lot more care when half of the planet is discussing the Alien Phenominon, the only thing missing is a landing on the whitehouse lawn.

And yet, metaphorically speaking this is exactly what Matthew is claiming, that Aliens landed on the Whitehouse lawn ! but nobody noticed ?

Millions of people believe Whitley Streibers' accounts of abduction but does this make it true ? obviously not as measurable evidence is not forth coming. Should Whitleys' fan base turn into a religion in years to come what evidence have they, well none only what Whitley said and wrote etc.
However should Aliens land on the whitehouse lawn then obviously this would give greater credability to Whitleys' claims.

Matthews description of an event that is not only supernatural but earth shattering to a people of that era and yet they didn't notice? Or no one believed them? Obviously then, the only witness to the event was Matthew, and being how the dead have never before or ever since climbed out of their graves and gone to town, Matthew is obviously very deluded.

The Aliens landed on the whitehouse lawn and nobody thought to record the event or investigate ?
Preposterous.

Ther is nothing to believe (so to speak) about Josephus, the dude would probably remain totally obscure to the majority of people if someone hadn't gone to the trouble of doctoring his writings to make it look as though he was writing about the Jesusgod. Josephus never mentioned anything about Jesus period.

So, when people claim an alien popped into their room is it recorded historically ? Well yes it is allthough at the moment not as fact it is recorded as a claim without solid evidence, we only have to look around us to see that. Yes some people laugh, but the question remains will people be laughing in two thousand years time ?

Jesus took on the sins of the whole world ..I am sure in flesh and spirit that would be a heavy load (when he was in human form) Sometimes when people even overload me with their troubles I get grieved in the spirit and feel like sometimes I cant go on another day (It wrenches your spirit ) and you do FEEL somewhat seperated from God at those times.


This unfortunately does not answer the problem unfortunately, and will be debated till when ever. The problem we have is that Jesus and god are alledged to be one and the same thing, except when they're not. ?????

Jesus being god would have no reason to ask himself anything let alone why he had forsaken himself, remember we are talking about the all knowing that which has created everything, the past the present the future.
How could that which is everything be unaware of anything ?

Or we could conclude as many have that Jesus was not god thus giving a very plausable reason to ask of the creator in relation to himself.


Or yet again, perhaps there is something else going on in these writings at a deeper level, perhaps intended for those who have an ear, an undercurrent of information if you will for those that see thorugh the visage that is christianity and the fear based control mechanism that it has demonstrated itself to be.
Perhaps.

My Dear friend Moo ..

I really dont feel like arguing with you today ..
There is a hurricaine comeing in and it could get really bad for those down on the coast ..It could get bad here too (Up North of there) ...
I would rather spend my day praying for them .

I will come back to you later ok .

reply to post by moocowman

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There is nothing in the text of Matt 27:52-53 that says Matthew was a witness. He only says these Saints appeared unto many.

Here is Matthew Henry's commentary on these verses:



From here:
bible.cc...

May God bless you.

reply to post by moocowman

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There is a limit to the detail that Josepus goes into and what he describes in great lengh seem to be things he witnessed or was close to.

reply to post by jmdewey60

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Duh? what exactly have you posted there?

That is absolutely meaningless please explain

reply to post by Simplynoone

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sorry ^_^ i was kinda having a laugh about it but they are valid questions even if i did use it to lighten the topic

matthew says the bodies arose and left the tomb

which would imply a physical rather then a spiritual thing

so a bunch of dead prophets got up and went walking to town

they may or may not have been in various states of decomposition (it really is like a zombie movie or not)

now yes id agree a bunch of historians writing dead are wondering around is unlikley, but probabily not the most fanciful stuff written as fact by an historian and it would be an amazing event. but it was also a time of gods and miracles bieng done on every street corner surley this would be a better miracle then the various healings to write about

Matthew didnt see it but knows of it even though he was there, fair enough big city you might not notice zombie moses in the crowd but why didnt the other disciples who were there as well notice or know about it?

i think he made it up my self its just one-up man ship like the story of judas, 3 versions each one he gets more evil and i think its matthews that makes him the most evil

last to write his version so added a little somthing somthing to please the crowd


see you went and did the man/man-god/god thing anyway lol


another of the "why have i forsaken my self" is the

"why do you call me good, im not good only god is good"

in the nostics or coptics theres a few more versions of the crucifiction, one of them has him as god in human form so they nailed him to the cross and he yawned a bit and hung there till he got bored not feeling any pain becasue he was a god


if judas killed him self the second jesus was hung on the cross why did anyone bother to write the gospel of judas, and why did he live long after jesus in it

As far as the Biblical saints being risen from the dead, I doubt anyone in Jerusalem would have known about it. Here is why:

There was no record of what these long-dead saints looked like, there wasn't Facebook.com back then, there was no "Patriarchs of the Torah" photo album. They didn't have their pictures hanging up in the temple.

Point being: No one alive in Jerusalem KNEW what these patriarchs looked like when they were alive. At that time the average age at death was about 30. Heck, it was 47 years old in A.D. 1900.

So no one would have been able to say "Holy dead man walkin Batman!!!"

They didn't even know that these men were the dead patriarchs, to them in Jerusalem they were just another face in the crowd.

I copied this one book of Josephus, that would cover the time of Jesus, into a Word document and ran the word count, to show how may words were used to describe a pivotal point in History.
My point is, there is hardly any mention of this event, even in the Bible.
Josephus not taking up space in his book to describe a ghost story is not that good of an argument that it never happened.

Did you ever wonder why we have relics? Because people like them. Some people are crazy for them. Like when a saint was burned at the stake, as soon as the fire died down, people would find the bones and save them. So, people were like that back in the time of the apostles, and they made paintings of all the Apostles. They had fans and the tradition was handed down. So if you look at these old Orthodox churches with their frescoes, or murals, these are pretty good representations of what they and Jesus looked like.

So how did Matthew recognise them then if "
Point being: No one alive in Jerusalem KNEW what these patriarchs looked like when they were alive."

Do you like shooting yourself in the foot?

Plus I reckon someone would notice half decomposed bodies walking around or climbing out of graves wouldn't you?


G

{Plus I reckon someone would notice half decomposed bodies walking around or climbing out of graves wouldn't you? }

They were not half decomposed
Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven ...
1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Look God made this flesh and blood and he can sure do another (This is sarcasm of course) big bang and change us into something other than flesh and blood ..in another one of his big bang moments ..doncha think ?

That still doesn't explain why it was only Matthew who recognised the 'dead' or did god tell him and no-one else so that he could write in in his story? I mean as was stated
"Point being: No one alive in Jerusalem KNEW what these patriarchs looked like when they were alive." or would that mean that Matthew was DEAD as well?


G

Considering he was an Apostle of Christ and Christ raised them from the dead, of I dunno....

perhaps Jesus INTRODUCED THEM???

Matthiew: "Hey Jesus, who are those dudes with you?"

Jesus: "Don't worry about it Matthiew."

Matthiew: "Oh, okay."

Secondly, your assuming they had 'half-decomposed bodies". Nowhere in the scripture does it say that, I'd assume they had incorruptible, glorified, resurrected bodies just like Jesus did.

I've never met a Christian who thought Jesus resurrected them as they were without changing their bodies just like his.

there state of decomposition or freshly healed and reserected wasnt really inquestion i just like the thought of resident evil jerusalem it makes a decent film in my head might be a bit of a b movie if they made it really though



so why didnt he introduce the others as well? they were there all standing around with jesus hung on the cross

if a bunch of dead guys got up and went over to say hi before hitting downtown jerusalem for a party you think jesus would have been polite enough to to say hey guys

not hey matthew ive got a secret climb up here so i can whisper it

**
NotyourTypical no offence mate but your hurting the conversation here a bit,

first you use a video that says christianity is evil and subverted like buddism, catholisism, hinduism, mithrosism, axtec ism(not sure the correct term for thier religeon) jewdaism to prove how christianity is the only true religeon ....... satanism like all the others?

then you say no one remebers them becasue they died a while ago

but then when that doesnt work we get pssst come ere ive got a secret