That was disturbing to read, but I couldn't help but think that that's the kind of thing that goes on in in a typical abortion clinic on any given day right here in the good ol' US of A and if anyone dares to do anything about it, women will fill the streets chanting about a woman's right to "choose."

I'd be willing to bet that those people in China, as barbaric as they may be, don't try to sugarcoat their activities with silly slogans and weepy tales of anguished premeditation.

I'm certain that this comparison will outrage some, but really, "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."





[edit on 2008/8/20 by GradyPhilpott]

This is so bad and bothers me so much, if I had to choose any thread I've ever posted since I've been here to make it very high on ATS, this would be it. It just ain't right, and someone over there needs to do something, like outlaw it bigtime. China just inconvenienced a whole lot of people to make conditions right for the Olympics. How about inconveniencing a few more TO STOP THIS INHUMANE BUTCHERING FOR THE ANIMALS SAKES!!!

reply to post by goldcoastguy

---

I'm pretty sure that at the point of being selected for death and relabelled as "Tasty" to fill your plate isn't a moment of enlightened clarity for the unfortunate animal? But you’re correct; I can't point to a specific instance that would satisfy your questions scientific requirements. I have observed the shaking of legs, wide eye stare and the loss of bowel control of a cow just about it was to be 'humanly' killed in an abattoir. Sobering experience!

reply to post by mlmijyd

---

Apology completely accepted. And to explain the "keeping it to a minimum" remark...I was really talking about how incredibly difficult it is to avoid animal products completely...I do try very hard, but they are in absolutely bloody everything. I do have leather boots...one pair, that will be worn until they fall apart like the last pair did....I get as much mileage as I can out of them, and until I find a decent alternative that isn't toxic in the way it's produced, I have to deal with that. Sadly, I live in the kind of climate where I need boots...if I lived in Florida, I would be in flip flops all the time, instead of just 6 months of the year. I know this doesn't have as much integrity as I would like, and it does really bother me, but I know the meat/leather industry isn't going to disappear overnight no matter how much I want it to...all I can rant about and work towards is furthering people's understanding of alternatives, and sadly all too common cases like in the OP that have to be addressed.

Cait

reply to post by mlmijyd

---

Mate, I would also be sickened by this visual if I have experienced it first hand which I have not. But I would like to point out in nature, animals kill others for food. Also, we as humans kill animals for food (and plants). Unfortunately - as I sigh - it is a fact of life and always has been. Life has never been fair in this regard. Everything must eventually die for one reason or another. I just hope those cows bred to be eventually eaten within a hamburger have lived a reasonably painless and normal life (ie eating grass, expelling methane, etc) and not have prolonged, painful deaths.

In the end, we do have more intelligence and/or can do more about it so hopefully we as a general population make the correct choice when another life-form dies at our hands with minimal suffering.

"Do unto others as you would wish done unto you." I think this saying is a given.

Best regards,
Gold

i think animal cruelty is very wrong ,but saying china flaying animal alive is also very wrong,most people in china would never torture animals.one famous case is a sicko put a video on the internet shows a girl killed a kitten with her high heels,and infuriated the people all over china.and people used all means to track her down,thousands if not millions chinese netizens working together closely and finally found out the girl's true identity.in chinese,we call that"human flesh search".and that woman dares not venture out of her house again.that's a very famous event and every chinese knows that,we have so many animal lovers here in china.so dont generalize and say china does....,it is very ignorant and irresponsible.

I think this is a very reasonable and correct statement.

Just because a few people do this does not mean the nation as a whole follows suite, just need to put this into perspective. How many people live in china who love animals compared to those who do this? I would say there is a huge difference (in favor for those who appreciate and love animals).

But in saying this, I believe personally it is very wrong what is done, skinning these animals alive.

No religion, politics or such in my above statement - just a sense of regard for life and lack of unnecessary suffering.

Gold

reply to post by haidian

---

In considering your point, I agree. So I changed the title of the thread. To you Chinese that have a heart and would never do this, may you be blessed. To you that are committing these senseless acts of violence, I'm tempted to grab my fillet knife and let YOU feel how these animals are feeling when you skin them alive. How about we just skin one arm, and see how you feel about that? Oh, still didn't get the point? Ok, we'll skin two. No problem.

Why is this about China?
Is it because the "raccoon" dog? has a special place in everybody's hearts?
If this is about unnecessary cruelty to animals, then we can give China a pass or include every Country.

I mean here in the U.S. we catch fish for fun, and the skilled guys fillet the fish alive and throw it back into the water and watch it swim away. Yes, the fish doesn't yet know it is dead and will swim down out of sight just to appear soon after floating to the surface. I have seen this many, many, times and sometimes the fish survives for nearly 20 seconds.

So is it the act of cruelty to a living animal? or does it just depend on how much we like a certain animal? or how personified we make it?

Do you want to know how some of us hunters finish off a Grouse that is still alive after we shoot it?

Every Country, every culture, can be a target for PETA. So lets not pick on China for this issue.

((( The fish I witnessed swimming away that were dead but didn't know it were almost always Walleye))

Bizzare the rational with the majority of people. This is an outrage, but have you done any digging as to where your meat and especially dairy come from? This is god awful, but most people are contributing to this on a mass scale and there's no outcry.


Weird how things work.

reply to post by Res Ipsa

---

I've already said. This goes beyond cruelty, and so does what you have seen. That's just evil man. I've been fishing plenty in my life. Never once did anything, or SAW anything quite like what you describe. And something always deep down bothered me whenever it was time to take that worm and impale it- alive. But hey, you're a man- you can handle it.

reply to post by haidian

---

Good post. The double standard is pretty insane. 70% of all fur in the United States comes from China. And it's not mink, fox, or anything of the like. It's common dogs, cats, whatever. This is all an outrage until we throw our "mink" fur hoods over our head in our brand new Prada fall jacket all the while magnifying an occurrence that we not only enable but contribute to on a mass scale.

Duality is such a b**** for some people.

So how does one propose to prepare an animal for use for food? Do we wait untill the animal dies of old age? Nope, do we wait untill the fish dies and dries out before we gut it? Nope.

Do you throw a dead lobster into a boiling pot of water?

how does one prepair raw oysters for eating, do you alow the oyster to die first?

The point is, people kill animals for food. The method of preperation for each animal may differ, but the end result is of course the same. Yes it may seem very cruel to skin an animal alive. It may even seem barbaric. Some may say the consumption of embryos are also barbaric, but millions of Americans consume millions of embryos every single morning.

Let us look at this in perspective.

reply to post by whatukno

---

Is wrong, wrong? Or is there limitations as to what is wrong and what is not? How can one differentiate the importance or significance of one life over another? Isn't killing any sentient being "bad?"

reply to post by whatukno

---

Never been crazy about throwing a live lobster, or live crab into a pot of boiling water. Maybe if those kinds of animals could make noises we could hear, a human might be less tempted to do something like that. Do we really know if they feel pain and terror?

But when an animal like a dog or raccoon is clearly letting you know they are in agony and terrified while enduring that kind of death needlessly, that's when what ever little bit of sympathy they are due would tend to make the compassionate reassess WTF they are doing.

The perspective on this is specific , and widening it to whatever degree you choose still doesn't change the fact that this can be done in a way that is much less of the barbaric act that this is in the first place.

My take on the OP is different -- it's really not about the killing but how it's done. Most posters here recognize the fact that humans kill for food. As with most things, there are more rasonable ways to go about that, than others. What the OP is about, imho, that the way to kill the animal by flaying it alive is beyond reasonable.

I saw a couple of videos on YouTube and that stuff is hard to watch. Frankly, I don't understand why they won't properly knock the poor animal out before flaying.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

---

We as humans kill every single day, we have killed absolutely everything (including ourselves) that crawls on the surface or swims in the water or flys in the air. Is that practice wrong? If the majority of people do something, does that not make it right?

What is at question here I believe is the method of preperation. We find that skinning an animal while it is still alive quite barbaric. This is our prespective on the issue. Not really that they are killing the raccoon dog for use for food. But the method of preparation.

Of course the same thing can be said for the way we in the west prepair Lobster or Crab. Both these "beings" are first boiled alive. Sounds quite barbaric. Then of course we come to the egg, an unborn fetus, we consume millions if not billions of these every year.



How then do you propose we as a species that are omnivores eat?

Does your lawn deserve any concideration when it is mowed? Does a tree deserve any concideration when it's limbs are cut, because they grow too close to the house or are otherwise inconvienent? Does a carrot, lettuce, asparagus or any other fresh vegitable deserve consideration because it is alive?

The method of preparation in this issue we in the west find barbaric, yet, we do simmilar things ourselves every day.

TrueAmerican, Lobsters scream when you throw them into boiling water.



[edit on 8/20/2008 by whatukno]

reply to post by gs001

---

What is wrong with you? Couldn't you stick that behind a link or something?

reply to post by buddhasystem

---

Most the animals we consume go through severe pain, fear, and exhaustion. That's long before they're killed. Here in the United States we are breaking the legs of young cows to produce veal. Clipping the beaks flush with the face of chicks as to promote less pecking in cramped cages. Hooking pigs in their chest cavity in a processing line because it's time effective. Pain and hurt is relative.