Cool thread, I hope your experiment turns out for the best IR1984. I've been recently curious about beginning a vegetable-heavy diet, maybe substitute my meat intake with more fish, but I've always been carnivore...

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

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As to your unwellness...

I do hope that clears up for you. Do you drink Michigan Tap or water cooler water? Getting enough light? Opening the curtains, I mean. Are you getting ANY nature activities?

I went up and down with both getting ill and feeling crappy, and drained. What I needed was some miles around the track in the rain and the meat cleared out of me )for the most part(--as a reset; a swap out on water. And some distance between me and what stresses me out, which usually has something to do with the type of people the world is the most full of.

It might be you caught mersa at the gym even. Another thing that helped me was occassionally following the russian superstition of cold bucket dumping.

Now if I don't get out-I will lean towards crappy. But, if I get out with someone to explore some dirt hills-I'm tops. I wonder if it is the power of the thigh muscle--no really. At least with myself (I don't know about mens bodies) when my quads get pummeled in natural activity; my whole core follows.

I reccomend climbing down a slope so you have to find your way back up.

Look around for some Greek recipes, or recipes that fit along the ole Mediterranean diet. Check out www.about.com, they have a great reek recipe section with boatloads of vegetarian foods. You'll will like!

Good luck my friend!

Hey guys.

Well i'm afraid i need to abandon my experiment as i've become very unwell. I stopped with the diet two weeks ago. After having added small amounts of meat back to my diet i feel far better.

Now i know some vegans and vegetarians are going to say i didn't do it properly but i honestly did it within all of the guidelines. I made sure i had the protein, fats and carbohydrates i needed. I wasn't sure whether it was my illness or the diet that was causing my problems but as i feel far better with meat i can only accept that it was the lack of meat that was causing me trouble.

However i am not saying the vegetarian diet is a bad thing! I am very sure it's good for some people and i can most definitely say it had some benefits. The most clear benefit was the condition of my skin. I was never very spotty or greasy but the condition of my skin really improved on the vegetarian diet. I think this is because of the increased vitamin intake from my new diet.

My old diet was well within recommended guidelines. I had little meat, plenty of fish, no red meat and tons of vegetables and yet the extra veg from a vegetarian diet has helped my skin.

Positive outcomes from this experiment

I've decided to for go meat twice a week to help increase the vitamins and minerals in my diet. Whilst i had enough before, the increase in my skins health was obvious and so i am hoping that replacing two meals a week will keep this up.

However i cannot ignore the great advantage meat seems to have for me personally. The meat really seems needed by my body, as evidenced by my energy levels.

I am grateful for those who helped me with my experiment and gave me help with the new diet. Thank you for everyone who followed it all and i'm sorry i couldn't continue it further. However i've been very unwell and just had to end it. I hope that's ok.

In the end i think some people will benefit from this diet and others are still in need of meat. I myself obviously need meat.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

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Hi, I just found this thread and it piqued my interest.
IR, would you mind describing your normal daily diet while you were vegetarian? Did you feel like you craved or missed eating meat, or did you have any other cravings during it?
When you felt tired, why specifically did you think you felt that way?

I've been vegetarian for about a year and a half and feel like I've been getting younger from it, but it is also came with a general increased focus on health so I can't say it's the diet specifically.
I still eat eggs and more dairy than I'd like, and if I see someone about to throw out half of their turkey sandwich I might step in.

There is a definite change that takes place in the body when switching, and it took me a couple tries before I really got over wanting meat, but now when I do occasionally save a chunk of dead bird from the garbage(yum, huh?) I can really feel it and almost got sick from half a cheeseburger a few months ago.
I lost weight as I gave up meat but don't remember feeling tired, and I definitely have more energy now compared to when i ate it every night.

I think there is a lot to the body that we don't understand, so here is where we take a little field trip into theoryworld where I very emphatically slam down my-two-cents entry fee.
Obviously as humans we are not perfect synthesizers of nutrients, otherwise we'd have chlorophyll and some other weird abilities and wouldn't have to eat food at all--food is hella inefficient when you think about it, look at all the time we spend on gathering and preparing it, even if you consider mcdonalds food, look at how much goes into even that.
And, no specific source here but it's kind of a given that nutrients from food are superior to nutrients from pills. Y'know, tomatoes and spinach and everything else does things with the elements that our stomachs can't--remember, otherwise we wouldn't have to eat.
Now, when you think of how long we've had to evolve and what goes into collecting cows or woolly mammoths to eat versus potatoes and seeds and coconuts, well, you need a different body for those two things, and evolution has given us both.
It is a firm belief of mine that the way nutrients enter our body in the amounts that they do acts as some kind of signal to the body in terms of what it needs to create for itself--lean muscle or bulk, fat, etc

I think it's a square and rectangle thing here, meat without veges is impossible(not impossible, but terribly unhealthy and have fun poopin'!) but I don't think the opposite is not true.

I will say that you do have to be careful and watch it, and I do start to feel off if I am not varying my diet . According to the nutrition labels on everything I don't get enough iron. I don't know how far anyone trusts those, but it's there. I recently started taking a daily multivitamin because the iron thing was nagging at me.
Protein is of course another issue but if you are eating balanced, proteins usually work themselves out naturally; beans and some grain, nuts and seeds.
You have to keep the diet interesting and varied, and what really fascinated me is that once I really considered myself a vegetarian I started to crave an avocado or maybe a couple huge bites of really thick olive oily mediterranean hummus and pita, or cashews and almonds in stir fry instead of chicken nuggets.
There is a very complicated balance that must be found which gets tragically glossed over and propaganda'd over in elementary school.
But when I do eat richly(indian one night, a burrito the next, and a pizza with veges the next night, and chili the next) and am fairly present when I do, I feel incredible.

And, man, those vegan bodybuilders creep me out so bad.

also, sorry if I got ranty there. Food is one of my passions. Not an expert but I read a lot and eat every day

Erm i specifically felt that way because i was tired. As someone who is used to feeling tired due to the condition i have i am experienced in judging that feeling. I am used to pacing myself and judging if i am well enough to do something before i do it. If i get that wrong i can be very ill for days. I did miss meat however i should point out my diet was wide and varied and included plenty of foods. There were no gaps in my diet if that is what you were after.



I have been very mindful of my diet since i was around 12 as i was training a lot in martial arts and had to eat right. I know a great deal about nutrition. My diet before my experiment was exceptionally healthy.



Well good for you, sadly my experiment had quite the opposite effect. After reading more into vegetarian and vegan diets it seems they have a very clear calming effect on the brain, various hormones change. I wonder if it is this change that makes you think you feel better, rather than actually being healthier. After all drugs make you feel great but they do damage.

Why are you taking birds from the garbage? That would make lots of people ill i don't think you can blame it on the meat!




You have wrongly combined two arguments here. Fat rich foods are highly efficient and far more efficient than plants (which take in approx 45% of light). Chlorophyll process sunlight and so again to compare us to plants is ridiculous as we would need some way to collect nutrients from soil.



Absolutely, that is why vitamin pills are called supplements.



Yes and no. The body will use carbohydrates to power your body, when there is an excess it stores it in your liver, kidneys and small amounts in muscles. When there is a big surplus you store it as fat.

You won't just put on lean muscle if you take in lots of protein, you only put on muscle when your body is under stresses that cause a growth response, like lifting weights. However you need the protein once you cause a growth response to gain muscle, otherwise your body breaks down it's own proteins to repair itself and that actually leads to muscle loss. This is why you will see bodybuilders and powerlifters draining protein drinks after training.



Tell that to the eskimos who historically ate a meat only diet. Our bodies can get everything w3e need as long as we eat the blood and bone marrow. I have to admit though i wouldn't like that diet The other way around you can survive but i don't think either way is healthy. As i said i think maybe the hormonal changes are what cause vegans and vegetarians to thin they feel healthier.

Whilst i agree that the veg diet reduces chances of heart disease and cancer, if you are training hard then you will find it harder on the vegan diet.



That state in and off itself is the vital flaw in vegetarianism and is possibly why i felt tired. However i was also taking a supplement at the time so i doubt that was the cause of my tiredness. I also had a blood test before i came off the diet and all my levels were apparently normal.



False i'm afraid. You have to combine the correct grains and seeds to gain a complete protein, soy for example is not a complete protein. Meat, eggs and fish obviously are. Therefore you could say that the meat choice is the more efficient choice as the proteins can be easily broken down and used immediately. Whereas the vegetable proteins have to be broken down, further simplified and recombined before use.



I would say that is simply because your psychology changed in regards to your eating habits rather that a physiological response.



Before becoming ill i felt incredible on my old diet. To give you an example of just how active i was, i did full contact martial arts up to 3 or 4 times a week. Rock climbing, jogging, football (soccer if you're american), weight training and a few other things. I trained very hard.



Why? The only thing that i find silly about them is that they are half the size of meat eating bodybuilders. This goes to show that meat most definitely provides something that veg alone can't wouldn't you say?



I am the same and as i trained so hard for so many years i had to pay very careful attention to my diet, so i understand your passion.