reply to post by Bigwhammy

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I love it! I'm still chuckling at Bad to the Bone. Ohmygosh. hehehe

He was the ultimate hippy!

reply to post by pause4thought

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i don't think von danieken's mistakes prove his writings were incorrect. it'd be better to address the mistakes in his writings. mistakes, blunders, etc, are a hallmark of being human.

reply to post by amitheone

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moses asks him, "who should i say sent me?" and god responds, "i am, that i am. tell them i am has sent you." or somethign to that effect. anyway, i was pondering time travel one day and it dawned on me that he was essentially saying he was omnipresent, a definite facet of time travel. if you can be present at all points in time, simultaneously, you're definitely large and in charge. hehe

It is straight fowad to you. Some one else may find an alternative meaning from them, and the character Bek'Ti. BTW. The papers mention there were 6 people who came into contact with Bek'Ti, what if an alternative account were to be published? And on the subject of teh others, were are they?

How could one who wanted to be saved, preface all the heinous actions with a premediatated intent to accept Jesus as lord and savour post heinous activity and then expect that redemption is gaurenteed. But you know what too, your arguements is evidence at the lack of control religion really has. It is about a personal perspective and responsibility.

I think i addressed this above, but I will add that this senario is likely, but if you follow a religion that provides lessons and wisdoms that generally point out the error of being "heinous" to others, I doubt you are going to then plan to be "heinous", because forgiveness is possible. If you accept God as creator, then lthe application of the Logic which God has given us on this senario can easily dismiss such notions as being possible but ultimately futile. Which is why you don't see the vast majority of people who believe in a higher power running around being evil only to then ask for redemtion as per the secular interpretations that Jesus is L&S.

I guess the "OK" part is up to Jesus or God. You have to live according to the words of God, not the interpretations of the Protestant or some other Church. So there is really no control other then what one wills. No control. No slaves.


Well, this is speculative on your behalf. But wh that proves what? That religion is a tool for human subjegation.
He wrote the story to match historical records.
So you had unanwered questions that a belief in aliens created religion that has controlled humans and made them slaves.

So, he wrote a story and you believe it. Religion.

Well there has been alot more witnesses of Jesus than there have been of Bek'Ti. There were more papers written about Jesus. There is no evidence offering support of the Terra Papers claims.



Can you show me the maths, please. Genuine interest here.
Prove there are not limits to the nature of humanity and life. Show that the limits are a constuct of beliefs. If, as you suggest, the nature of our reality is based on belief, then God is the Limit. As the vast majority of the world believe in God. We believe in a God that lies without these limits. We observe my senario, we do not observe yours. In part, my belief in God comes from these observed limits.

LOL. Well, i am being technical, because your generalisations are unfair. You know what really controls people, The immediately important things. Food, Shelter, Health, Jobs, Money. Go back in history, this does not change. Religious people use their beliefs to help them survive spiritually everyday and to understand existence.
When was the last time people rioted due to a religious shortage, when was the last time you saw people protest over lack of priests. Religion, if anything, has been feared and suppressed throughout history.



So am I. Your arguements and statements are not new. People criticising religion as a control tool etc often claim it has happened for thousands of years. My point is, if religion is the control enslavement tool you and the terra papers claim it is, why do we need patriotism as an excuse to control the population into war?

It is not religious. Islamic states are ruled by theocracy, there are religious states being attacked for their resources under the pretense that they are harbouring WMD. American People where lied to by men in power, they believed it.
So start a thread in the Aliens forum!

The terra papers? data. Analysis. Please.

No. You are here on a thread that asks why people believe in God and you are claiming that religion is a tool of control used by Beings no one else but Mr. Morning Sky's grandfather has seen. This is not a perspective on why you or other believes in God. You are expresing your opinion on why religion exists, and what it exist for. I believe i am more dumbfounded by some of your posts, than defensive, but that happens when beliefs collide and is par for the ATS course. But you can post what you like. Please don't cloud the thread with claims of 'its only a perspective". If you accept the Terra Papers as being genuine than you are not here to answer the OP questions.

This can only lead me concluding that you are here to argue against anyone who does believe in God and has joined this thread to answer the OP, only to get You and a terra papers promotion. Post away though.
The terra Papers is one of the poorest examples of this new phenomena of Updating our spirituality and beliefs due to the influence of science and technolgy. Curious as to why i feel this way. look Here




:cheers

[edit on 2-8-2008 by atlasastro]

Actually...I said "cabin." Not "shelter." But again, a spark of life is not the complexity of a cabin. It is an electromagnetic phenomenon.



That's a full cell. Virii are far less complex, yet are considered "alive." And it may be that the originally sparked life was not even that complex.



That is because for us to do the creating, to have it attributed to us, we cannot have infinite time, space and variety of conditions. But if WE can force the right conditions for it to happen, why is it that it could not have spontaneously occurred with infinite time, space and variety of conditions?



Again, it was a "design" based on survival imperatives, conditions, and the tendency of life to move towards greater complexity.



Depends on the evolutionary theory. Some theorize quantum jumps in evolution. And being an electromagnetic phenomenon, this would make sense if one takes into account the effects of passing through the plane of the ecliptic of galactic electromagnetic fields (which we will do on December 21st, 2012).

Also... How do you know that it is "lacking in the first forms of life" if the first forms of life were NOT on this planet and this planet was seeded by Genesis Scientists from elsewhere? Maybe the fact that these data are missing is a good sign that life did not begin here. In fact...it would make me believe that, in fact, several forms were introduced here by others.

Well. I doubt that we will have resolution of this anytime soon. You will believe "God" poofed them here, and I will believe that the planet was seeded by aliens of whom we have the DNA of galactic royalty.

Cheers, then.

As far as God is concerned, everything is done in the twinkling of his eyes. Time travel needs tremendous amount of energy. God is not only omnipresent, but He is omnipotent - All powerful, Almighty possessing mind boggling infinite energy!

[edit on 8/2/2008 by amitheone]

The spaceship is just to show how time travel works. Next, I calculated how fast God could be traveling in order to achieve 1 day = 1000 years according to the scripture. It strangely gives a tiny hair away of the speed of light. Very strange.

This is just one of the many scientific facts why I believe in God. The knowledge in that ancient book is just way too advance for its time.

I'd like to start off this attempt to answer your OP challenge by first addressing a few questions to you for answers, if possible, Death_Kron:

1. how far back in written history do you agree to go before you begin to call it myth and fable and refuse to accept it as eyewitness accounts and historical evidence? (i need actual dates, not generalizations, please)

2. how far back in archaeological findings are you willing to go before you begin to call it myth and fable and refuse to accept it as legitimate archaeology? (i need actual dates, not generalizations, please)

3. do you trust modern day archaeology to answer your questions on the topic of what happened in ancient times? if so, to what extent? if not, does this mean you really don't accept archaeology?

4. what is your religion, if any?

5. what is your level of education and in what subjects?

6. are some religions easier for you to believe than others, and if so, which ones and why?

[edit on 2-8-2008 by undo]

I could address the previous stuff in your post, but decided it was too nitpicky to spend the effort on.

But this? Religion? Ha. It is based not only on this particular work (though it did pull a lot of loose strings together) but testimony of people like Phil Schneider, Credo Mutwa, a number of astronauts, Dr. Greer and the hundreds of military and other witnesses he has, statements made by a number of political and scientific personalities over the years, Sumerian writings, Egyptian writings, Mayan writings, what they do at Bohemian Grove, the fact that something so manufactured as 9/11 was so effective in motivating a malinformed public...and on and on. You can call this plethora of evidence "religion" if you want to, but then we might as well call the geologists who find dinosaur bones "religious" in their belief that dinosaurs exist.

Call it whatever you want, but in my view, it's not "religion" unless it is based on faith.



ROFL! Bek'Ti is NOT the point. For those who believe, Jesus is, it would seem. Bek'Ti was merely the messenger of information about history, and is no more the point than one's history teacher is the point of the history lesson.



Except Sumerian texts, other texts, and witness after witness in military, science and black ops. Not to mention the zillions of abductees...

[sigh]



Cantor had the answer, using Aleph (which is the "first infinity..."). Here's a seemingly good Wikipedia entry:

en.wikipedia.org...

Note under Composition that the first element to the equation has the infinity symbol right there at the top.



LOL! I cannot. As long as you don't believe, you will not/cannot see. Guess it's a matter of...faith. Hahaha. Ah, well.




Religion has been used. I'm surely not saying it is the ONLY source of sociopolitical control. Note Monsanto's efforts to control the food we eat. Note other efforts to control water. The efforts to put us into a system where we cannot work unless we follow certain rules. Note the efforts to bring money into complete electronic state, thereby completely controlled. More and more...

They are trying to control us completely, and then we WILL be complete slaves. But you believe that it's untrue, and that there are no aliens, and that religion was started by God and not aliens.

You might want to read Bramley's The Gods of Eden sometime. He didn't have the whole picture, but his research is impeccable. It's available free on the web in PDF format.



You keep harping on that single element as if it is all I have. Dude, above I offer a partial list of the data I analyze. Please.



Nope. Wrong. I am here explaining why I think people believe these things and their origin, using as one piece of data a history teacher offered and that coincides with many other data in this Universe. It is relevant to the subject of the thread.



WTF? Don't cloud a perspective-laden issue with claims of my perspective??? I'm not here offering an answer to why people have these beliefs by offering an answer to why they have these beliefs?




Where did that quote come from? It was not written by me. In the first place, I don't ask people WHY they believe what they believe. I am here to offer MY perspective, take it or leave it. I use the word "devote" - not "devout" - when I mean "devote." And I do not assume that you have nothing you feel is "proof" of what you have chosen to believe. This is NOT my quote.



You might want to add "in my opinion" to that statement. You cannot show, empirically, that this is so.



Not really. You have your mind set and so do I. Let's leave it at that.

[edit on 8/2/2008 by Amaterasu]

And aliens wouldn't explain this? Seems to me they would explain it a lot better than an "out there" God.

To me, "God" is consciousness, and it all flows from inside outward, and not from outward into us.

To me, aliens explain advanced knowledge quite well. [shrug]

reply to post by Amaterasu

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If you want to dwell more into Aliens, perhaps what might interest you are the Raphaims and Zamzumins in the Bible. They don't belong to the table of nations or in other words, the human race. They are the odd one out and Israel was commissioned to wipe them all out.

Plethora of stories. Got any alien bones. Show me the aliens, as i can go to a museum and see the dinosaur bones. LOL...please.
Have i met God or Jesus. No. Even if i said i did, would you believe me? But I have read alot of stories about him and about God. And many stories of people who have experienced and witnessed the miraculous. Have you seen these Aliens? I bet you have read alot of stuff about them. And alot of stories from witnesses. See any similarities yet. You believe in these witnesses, these stories....religion.

No Aliens to show+belief in Aliens=faith in aliens existing.


You brought the topic up, not me, if there is no point to it then why use it. A messnger you have placed your belief in even thought there is no proof of him existing or what he say is true. Religion.

Do the summerian texts mention the terra papers, no. I have read interpretations of the sumerian texts as refering to being the same as the fallen nephilim(fallen sons of god) in genesis 6;4, so it depends on your context or what you believe. Religion. In this case you come from one that is influence by a new cultural view replacing more traditional gods as Aliens. Angelic messengers of Old are now Aliens with messages offering an insight into salvation.
It is funny you mention Alien Abductions as i have looked at this phenomena in depth and the link you ignore in my last post offers alot of insight into this. Interestingly we find people who experiencing these "abductions" as showing incredibly religious beliefs in relation to the experince when looking at the evidence and other more possible explanations.
When you mention witness after witness, are you refering to Aliens, and people witnessing these aliens using religion to control people. More personal testimony and appeals to authority(ie military witness). Typical and unevidential, all requiring faith. Oh, yeah, i forgot it was a cover up.


Cheers, i have been looking at the whole Eternal Universe theory and thought this would be interesting.

Ah, but then you answered my question exactly the way i thought you would. More of your Religion.

It is no control at all as my earlier comments pointed out. That you ignored as nit picking. Interesting.

Men run Monsanto. Not Aliens, No Priests.
People drink water, climte change is affecting water availability. The population growth is out of control. Water is an indespencible resource. It makes logical sense to then go and secure your sources. No aliens Involved. No religion Involved. Just People. And So the conspiracy involves everyone. LOL. Please, none of the above involves religion. No proof. No evidence. These are NWO topics, please. I have seen Zeitgeist, And the world according to Monsanto etc etc. I regularly follow the actions of the Codex, WTO, G8, Apec, IMF, EU etc. I have yet to see jesus or Aliens involved. Just People, Politics ,greed and power. I am generally interested in these topics and have heaps o stuff on Monsanto. But this thread is not about those.

Prove there are Aliens. You can't. Just as I can't prove there is a God. I guess our religious beliefs are similar. Perhaps these aliens want you to think they created God.LOL. They want to enslave and control you by believing them.

I will. I have a great interest in this topic believe it or not. I do not think that believing in God excludes me from being curious of this. I suggest you read James R Lewis' The Gods Have Landed, Susan Clancy on Alien Abductions, The Nature Of the Gods by Cicero, Stuart Apelle on Alien Abduction: Critical Evaluation of Theory and Evidence. I have heaps if you want them. From Both sides of this topic, or new religion, i should say.



You have only brought the Terra Papers up. Look at the posts. I am responding to your posts. If you can't take it. [shrug]


You are here claiming religion as an alien tool of control and enslavement. Not explaining. Explaining would make it clear. You havent.
Please, where in the universe, that we observe, does it prove that aliens created religion. Your attempt to give your "data" credibility by saying it sourced by a history teacher is amusing. If you need to qualify your "data" that way then you are in trouble.

the quote you refer to is from the OP, sorry i forgot to created the quote, my apologies. You have done none of these things, but argue that God is a creation of aliens. Now, you do not believe in God, cool. You believe in Aliens, cool. You believe the terra paper are real, cool. You have no proof that there are aliens, or that they created religion. Cool. Post Title Calling all Christians. Why are you here. Oh, only to offer a perspective. Your perspective on a persons belief in god on a thread that asks christians, why they believe in god. Just your perspective, on other peoples beliefs.

No opinion. Fact. Look at the Book of Urantia. Raelism. Scientology. All more solidly structured and written than the Terra Papers and generally accepted by a greater number of people, which we can observe. More believable, and original. Which is why it is generally dismissed as a poor and confusing sci-fi fantasy by many, and as an example, many here on ATS. Search Terra Papers on ATS and see for yourself, Just for a sample survey to support my statement. As the empiracal system is based on evidence, i hope this satisfies you.

Have you seen the x-rays of King Tut's skull? Very elongated, and with greater capacity than human skulls. Humans that "elongated" their children's heads (to emulate the "gods") could distort the skull, but could not INCREASE the skull capacity. Therefore, we must presume that Tut's and many other pharaohs' skulls, which had, in some cases, half again as much capacity as ours, were aliens - or at least hybrids.



I see. Your stories are better than my stories. Gottcha.



Hahaha. Sure, there are similarities, BUT, I have skulls, and many, many, many people (who are still alive or have been murdered) who claim that they have met aliens, up close and personal-like. You have old stories that could be interpreted as aliens, easily. And these stories came from relatively primitive people who could easily be convinced that the aliens they saw descending in space ships were "God(s)."

So no matter the similarities, there are great differences as well.



Not precisely. I have hundreds of credible witnesses, for one. I have skulls found in Egypt, and South America, even, which point directly to aliens, and I have the fact that the military is making a concerted effort to confiscate evidence (which is why it is so rare) - and you want me to believe that I am taking all this on "faith?" I roll my eyes.



To show how the history (which IS the point) was brought to the Hopi? I shake my head sadly. You are reaching in desperation, methinks.



I'm really getting tired of you and your reaches. Much more of this and I will say you are right just so you can't argue.



Ok, now this is just stupid. The Terra Papers are SUPPORTED by Sumerian texts. You really must be dense to ask THIS question.



Except that I don't:

1) think aliens are "divine;"
2) believe they can offer "salvation;"
3) accept any laws they might attempt to impose.

They are just beings as much as I am a being. I am equal to them. I have rights. They have rights. Quit pushing this "religion" thing onto my awareness that we are living in a society that has been manipulated and controlled by aliens.



I roll my eyes.

Ok. Like I said. You are set in your mindspace. I admit I am set in mine as well. Continuing this will merely belabor the impasse.

Cheers.

[edit on 8/3/2008 by Amaterasu]

Let me show you how easy it is to analyse your evidence, and offer a more possible explanation.
First, the Skulls.Peruvian Elongated and Trephined Skulls -Look at this link, it has adult skulls. Same as Tuts. You accept the alien hypothesis only on shape. Nothing else. Belief. Religion.Link You Will Probably Ignore
I know, it's all part of the cover up.
If it is hybrid, what material do you have to compare it too. Surely if it was hybrid, bone matrices would be different, Risidual Marrow could be compared to humans highlighting alien DNA or Organic Matter. Hasn't happened has it. Hmmmm. No hybrids here. just More Belief.

No. You don't see. All we have is stories. And our beliefs. Our religious beliefs. I am Cool with yours. As I am sure you are cool with mine. Oh, hang on, no you are not cool with it. Otherwise you would not be on a thread calling all christians trying to claim it is all an alien conspiracy.



Not anymore. LOL.
Christianity has over 1billion believers, many who have claimed to have recieved divine inspiration or visions. Many have been Killied for believing in Jesus and God. So there, you sound exactly the sam as me. Religious.
You have new ones that could be an updated version of old stories given the cultural significance of science and technology and the abundance of Alien related media and entertainment. The newer generations then intergrate these new possibilities(ie alien life being possible due to science and technology expanding our concepts in terms of outer space and the universe) into pre-existing belief systems. This is to easy.

Roll 'em all you want, i bet if you roll 'em far enough you'll see empty space behind them. More of your boring witnesses. More personal testimony that you believe in lew of solid evidence. As for the confiscated evidence, if it is a fact, where is it stated as such. The facts are you have none so you squirm that it must be confiscated. PMSL. Please.

You really are making me happy. You show me history. Your History=A native Indians story from his grandfather. OK. Yep, i'm sold. You think I am desperate. Stop it please. I need an adult diaper just incase i loss bladder control again from reading your "history"....oh yeah, i forgot, you got it from your "history teacher". If your "history teacher" gave you a "playboy", would that make it natural history.



I am right. You must be tired of trying to convince yourself, that you are. I am right. You have no other proof other than a story. Religion.


Thank you. Thank you very much. I asked this because, in the old testament, it clearly mentions what will happen in the New testament. Thanks. Chalk another one up for the religion that is not used to control or enslave people. And if you argue that the new testament was written with the old in context, then i can see the same thing happening with the terra papers in relation to the Summerian texts. BTW, i hope you are up to scratch on how badly Sitchin, or Zach the hack, got it wrong.




So, now on a thread that asks religious questions, you are upset by the word religion. Why are you here?


Oh...so you come on here and debase others beliefs as an alien power trip, but when someone tests yours as merely being a religion, you call for impasse. Belabour? If you really believed what you claim, how could it be a labour to reveal the truth to another human that they may be a slave to aliens, controlled through religion, just as how could i ignore your abscence of faith in Jesus or God. You can shy away from words like faith and religion. But that is all you have.
Can you just answer me this puzzle i have been struggling over for many a year. You say that we are being controlled, that religion is a creation of aliens. We observe that to the vast majority of people in the world, aliens and ET are far, far from their thoughts and everyday experiences. There is no conclusive evidence openly available(conspiracy coverup as per your beliefs) otherwise it would be a generally accepted fact, that aliens exist. So this is per the alien agenda, that we do not believe in aliens existing, but that there is a God. Yet, through alternative archeological theories, you claim there is conclusive evidence that there are infact aliens. My question is, Why leave a trail if your intent is to enslave and control through creating a God idology.Why has this evidence not also been confiscated? Like all the rest you claim! This would be more consistent with your theory, would it not. Or maybe it is just a matter of interpretations, are interpretations proof? Only in religion.
Cheers.
Belabour

[edit on 4-8-2008 by atlasastro]