"The love of money is the root of all evil"

^that's from the bible, 1TI 6:10

i just wanted to discuss how that statement is...well...stupid.

i can name several evils that have nothing to do with money

rape
child abuse
murder (though some can have to do with money, not all do)
genocides (again, sometimes economics might play a part, but not always)

alright, let's just take those 4 for now.
that should be enough to refute the absolutist statement that the love of money is the root of all evil

now, two questions: what are your thoughts?
and how can a book with such an obviously false statement still be infallible?

Yes but those things you mentioned madness are just the acts of evil not the cause behind them themselves...

what he means, (btw) it's an infallible man speaking, it's an apostle not Christ himself, not everything the apostles say is infallble....

He means that behind many things that are evil... the main focul point behind it is money.. so again it was a nonfallible man (apostle) speaking and not everything they say is infallble...

the teachings, the moral teachings from Christ are infallible and what christ himself said were because he was God himself...

peace.

Could that statement possibly be allegorical [Allegorical interpretation is the approach which assigns a higher-than-literal interpretation to the contents of a text (eg Bible)] , referring to what many see as money ultimately providing, power and control?

Now, if you were to interpret it as "The desire for power and control is the root of all evil" wouldn't it apply to all your examples and many, if not all other ills throughout the world?


[edit on 15/6/08 by Mark Harris]

Well said, Mark Harris.





Obviously false?


(all bolding mine -Rren)


Greed/ego/love of self. It's the root of all that's evil... not, all that's evil. Perhaps at 32, I'm still too young to be considered wise. But, the verse in question seems true enough in my experience. Anything but "obviously false" at the very least.

[Your observation/thread is] Interesting in an armchair psychology way... but, I'll refrain from exercising my ego like that.



Happy Father's Day, all.

Umm, no; The evil forces called the Reptilians not only created money (which is, by the way, pretty hard not to love) but they created specifically different religions around the world when they first were seen as the 'fallen angels' , & had pyramids build. - The turmoil we see today in the ENGINEERED conflics we see are all at root of the annanaki. - The elite, the monarchy, the world bank, the illuminati, etc, are all different names to confuse us, but behind the scenes, even the pope, & the church of Rome are behind all of this; Our lifestyles have disconnected us from what REALLY matters, & that is mother earth, & caring for each other. - RESPECT.

Money is merely one of their tools to bring us down. - Even if you are rich.


- This is not 'armchair philosophy; this is an attrocity!

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

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Wow dude, what a weak arguement.
Let's put this verse into context by reading what the verses around it are saying:

9But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

11But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Oh, so he's talking about greed/self indulgence and not specifically money (duh).
So the things you listed are all the result of greed/self indelgence, not a $1 bill, but you probably knew this however you just had to do your little bible bashing for the day.
Weak, weak, weak arguement dude, you really made yourself look like a fool this time.

So basicly the statement is not false, you just don't know how to read more than one verse at a time (if you did you'd probably go into shock).

Why don't you try attacking the Quran or something? Too scared? Oh wait I forgot, Atheists only hate Christianity, not all religions, my bad.

-Jimmy

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

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1 Tim 6:10 in several translations

It seems that the word "all" is sometimes used as "all kinds of".

"All" doesn't always mean "everything in it's entirety".

I like this quote from Charles Spurgeon:



From here

reply to post by Rren

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holy cow, you're back!
good to see you.

but it's obviously false as it is not the root of ALL evil. it's an absolutist statement

if i said ALL ATS members love the color pink, i'd be proven to be wrong the second someone said that they do not love the color pink.

absolutist statement.

reply to post by Mark Harris

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well, then we have conflicting viewpoints on the bible...
some say that it is literal truth and not allegorical

also, you'd be adding meaning that isn't implied. it's a very simple statement and you're basically adding a non-implied word to it.

reply to post by PreTribGuy

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"all kinds of" isn't the proper translation. go back to the original greek and you'll see that "the root of all evil" is the proper translation

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

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self indulgence isn't a cause of genocides
self indulgence doesn't cause people to lock away a family member for getting knocked up out of wedlock
self indulgence doesn't cause all evil
self indulgence doesn't cause all rapes in the world
self indulgence doesn't cause child abuse
self indulgence doesn't cause etc etc



um...no

actually, it's just the lack of an audience. if the majority of people on ATS were muslims, i'd address the quran more often.

actually, this insanely idiotic point has been addressed every time someone has spewed it out on ATS

why don't i address hinduism and the vedas?
or wicca?
or other stuff?
because the majority of the religious members of ATS are christians
it's called knowing your audience

so it still stands.

try to say "wow, what a weak argument" when you can show that it's weak.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

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But it is implied. Several translations of the same verse say "all kinds of".

Example:
English Revised Version
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil: which some reaching after have been led astray from the faith, and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

American Standard Version:
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil: which some reaching after have been led astray from the faith, and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

The New American Standard uses "all sorts of":
For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Young's Literal Translation:
for a root of all the evils is the love of money, which certain longing for did go astray from the faith, and themselves did pierce through with many sorrows;

When the bible discusses money as evil it is talking about the value system that God uses. It uses the understandings of worldly money as a tool to get one to see that we use a value system as judgment against and for other people.

It is a spiritual message and not to be taken literally, just as much of the bible is. The biggest mistake people make is to take the Bible as a literal message. That's a fact.

Yes it is, when someone deems another as lesser than themselves that means they think of themslelves as a higher being and they indulge themselves in power.



Yes it is it's similar to the above reasoning for genocide.



Then what does?



Yeah actually it is the main reason why that happens, people wanting to satisfy themselves sexually or wanting/indulging themselves in the power or control they feel.



Same explanation as I gave for rape.



Yes it does.



Ok,
Wow, that's a weak argument.


[edit on 16-6-2008 by jimmyjackblack]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

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Simple

If you love money then you do not love God as there is a conflict.

If you do not love God you are against him and at the mercy of Satan, this where the evils of those you mentioned fall into the mind of mankind.

all the best

From philos and arguros; fond of silver (money), i.e. Avaricious -- covetous. THOU SHALT NOT COVET!

david

I thought arguros was gold, not too keen on my greek though, so I could be wrong.

-Jimmy

hello Jimmy

got this from strongs

things made of silver
vessels
images of gods

david

This theory is the most plausible! ...hehehe

reply to post by Givenmay

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I can believe that lol.

So does that also mean time is also evil?

reply to post by Givenmay

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I remember seeing that somewhere. Wouldn't it actually mean that Girls require time and money, so girls require evil?

I prefer the other one, though:

Knowledge is Power
Knowledge = Power

Power=Energy/Time

Time is Money
Time=Money

So:

Knowledge is Energy/Money

The less money you have, the more knowledgeable you would be. Or if we take it one step further, with Money being the root of all evil, the less evil you are, the more knowledgeable you would be.



.....man, I'm such a geek.

I tried to not be off-topic by talking about something along the lines of the main thread of discussion, but I have nothing to add, really.

Yea, I just got it from my friends Myspace, and thought of this thread lol!

I would assume time means the time you work to make the money and spend with her! lol

Yeah, moving around a bit. Orlando ---> North Texas ---> Panama City. Didn't have the time (or internet connection) to play with you guys like I'd like to. But, unfortunately for ATS, I should be able to now. Good to see you too.






As I attempted to establish ("I" meaning the link I posted) 'love of money' has a deeper meaning [ego, greed, etc.] than the one you're giving it based on that one sentence, removed from its context. Which (imho) is intellectually lazy and/or dishonest. Reminds me of your thread where you argued against 'thou shall surely die' with 'but, they didn't die' (can't remember where to find that one atm) or your attempt to falsify C.S. Lewis' "Liar, Lunatic, Lord" argument with 'oh yeah, what if he was just wrong.' Which evidences that you'd never read Lewis' argument (which dealt with such.)

I don't think your giving some of these issues and arguments the respect they deserve. Seems you skip the study, understanding and consideration part and just jump into the deep end. Hard to have a serious conversation (much less debate or argue) with someone whom operates like that.



1 Timothy - Chapter 6 KJV (Read the entire chapter and (if you like) use the Strongs feature too)






Sure. How about trying it this way: How would you change it to make it more accurate? [ ? is the root of all evil.]







I guess we'd have to (like has been so far in your thread) do the [Clinton voice] "depends on what your definition of is is" [/Clinton voice] thing. Also, it's worth noting that many scholars believe that the NKJV version/translation is more accurate:


"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." [ 1Ti 6:10 (NKJV) ]

As you can see, if this is indeed the better translation, we've nothing to argue about. So (imo) there are several ways in which your argument is flawed/weak. Either way, not sure how we can (assuming nothing anyone has posted thus far has changed your mind/opinion/observation... which seems to be the case) find any middle ground on this or have any reason to continue the argument. Personally, when taken in context and understanding that this is an English translation of an ancient language, I find the statement true and wise... as is. If not, the NKJV trans-lation/literation defeats your 'absolutist argument.' Either way.

Your mileage may vary. See you around.

Regards.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Rren]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

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it says money is the ROUTE of all evil, which it is, most people do evil things and live an evil lifestyle without LOVE over money..

it says money is ROUTE of all evil, it doesnt say money is the ONLY evil...
so stop trying to prove the bible wrong, because you cant only when you minipulate it like youve done here.