When we die do we go straight to heaven or do we wait?

reply to post by Paul_Richard

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Hi Paul,

Yeah and thats not taking acceleration into account but to discuss it more I have enable IM so post away

Actually that would kind of make sense since 'heaven' is around the forth plane. I think there are upwards of seven plains so who knows what is on the others above the seventh.

So that makes it highly likely.

Thanks for the support by the way, and your one hell of a debater yourself

reply to post by Drakiir

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Right.

Most near-death experiences whereby one is taken to a "City of Light" (a religious heaven) are usually on the fourth plane. Angel-land, not Saint-land.

Categorizing the Other Side is a painstaking process.



[edit on 16-5-2008 by Paul_Richard]

Just in case Pause4thought wants to have a second look at this, then maybe he will do what his name says, pause for though! hahaha

[edit on 16-5-2008 by darcon]

The thing is you dont understand the truths written in the Bible.

You and your friends are still decieved.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Jn]

reply to post by Jn

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Coming from the person who believes the bible

reply to post by Jn

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How am I decieved when the God Jesus isnt even here anymore, he died in India and the fact that he said we will do greater things than he means we are capable of more.

Thats sounds to me like a prophet, not a God. And do you care to explain on Jesus behalf why he has left the human race in complete destruction and willingly sit on his throne and let it all unfold.

Can Jesus also tell me why the 'devil' is allowed free reign over who he can subject to his influence regardless of age. The duty of a God is to tend to the people not abandon them especially when the Jesus has full knowledge of what demons are capable of.

Can you also ask Jesus to tell me why I see people in pain and agony everyday and yet he does not want to intervene in the name of free will.

He is prepared without a shed of doubt to let his peole rott on earth in wars despite their cries for the 'Son of God' to intervene.

He is prepared to let people constantly proclaim miracles in his Church in his name and yet he never shows his face and helps the needy.

Whenever we dare question him it is told he is beyond our comprehension as if we are idiots, morons who dont understand this 'supreme beings' level.

Can you justify how Jesus has let his people and his earth come to the destruction it is bound for and convince me that he is a loving God who is in heaven, who never required any external angelic help for his powers.

And also tell me these are the actions of a loving God. He has a massive karmic debt for walking out on his own creations and leaving the 'devll' or as we call them Group Entities who are in part responsible for the havoc created to seduce anyone they want.

You can keep your Bible of Falicy because the Spirits in the Light guide me and my friends away from the need to beleive in a 'Son of God' thats dead. It certainly is beyond my delusional capacity



[edit on 16-5-2008 by Drakiir]

reply to post by Paul_Richard

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Hi Paul,

Im going to make a prediction.

He is writing verses from the Bible out in a huge post to try and prove that what the Bible says is true when the point will be missed entirely.

If its anything else than words from the Bible I will be surprised

reply to post by Drakiir

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You need to broaden your questions more, question the questions, who gives you these concepts?.

Religion is a guide, but you also need to guide yourself, through experience, gain experience through correct answers, to your own questions.

Dont swap one form of control for another, is what you say others are, but what about yourself?.

Makes sense, yes?.

Even if you ignore all the spiritual truth presented here by my friends, this is one fact you can't ignore - The Bible (and other holy books) and religion, have been and currently are used to control people to their detriment, physically and spiritually.

I have no wish to change anyones mind. There has been a lot of useful information provided, it's really up to the individual to decide. Don't thump your bibles near me, but if you really want to be a part of the deceptive collective, go for it. I'm very happy to know the truth of the situation, and I'm sure we'll be opposing each other some day discarnately.
So, see you in the future.

How do you know you are not controlled, through classic deception techniques, like you have had a game painted into your very mind, that becomes a BELIEF TRAP?.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Jn]

reply to post by Jn

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Congratulations you surprised me I thought you were going to write a ton of Bible line and versus.

I have asked clearly how you on behalf of Jesus can explain how the world is in the situation it is in.

How can Jesus the God justify what has happened by not interviening by not healing the sick and letting the people of Earth live the equivalent of hell. This is not even the definition of love, Jesus would be coming down from heaven and 'tending his flock' not letting them get 'ravaged by wolves' and than say 'Im the supreme being'.

Asking questions to more questions gives me no clarity only more questions but since you claim Jesus is a God and his wisdom is beyond me than he should have no trouble telling me through you.

I look forward to the answer



[edit on 16-5-2008 by Drakiir]

MrDead – Nice to see you and thanks for chiming in.

Now that I have overcome some minor PC-posting problems, I'd like to respond to Jn’s accusation at length.


I see that you are new to ATS, at least in posting.

You are addressing FOUR Solist Mystics and spiritual mediums in here. There are others in our fellowship. As mystics, we seek (and get) illumination and revelation directly from the Other Side, without going through a minister, priest, rabbi, or clergy person of any kind.

We see through the deceptive astral influences that empower the world's traditional religions and we converse with spirits constantly.

All of us have had situations whereby we have been visited by the yellow and orange-energy spirits representative of Christianity who further the Jesus god-icon. Those yellow and orange spirits have proven themselves many times to be abusive, manipulative, and deceptive.

In contrast, we find that the sky blue and white spirits – the discarnate Saints - to be helpful and supportive of us, and to provide spiritual insight. They do not promote a god-icon that is actually representative of Group Entity energies. In other words, they are not out to DECEIVE.

So given the same situation, who would you choose as the better option for spiritual guidance and metaphysical understanding?

There's more...

We have developed a high degree of spiritual purity, beyond even that of the Saints on the seventh plane that we channel.

This allows us a certain degree of discriminatory ability in discerning the purity of spirits or discarnates.

We have found that the spiritual purity of discarnate Saints, in addition to their Dominant Aura Colors, is superior to that of angels (basically spiritual discarnates) and subangels (common spirits).

So when yellow and orange spirits appear to us in their Group Entities (discarnate communities), we can detect them not only from their Dominant Aura Color, but also from their less then pure - lusty - presence.

That's right.

Angels have a slightly lusty energy when compared to the energies of discarnate Saints, who are purer and nobler in spiritual presence.

In other words, to us, angels and especially subangels astrally stink.

So we have a number of ways which has led us to the determination that the religions and spiritual-metaphysical understanding of angels on the fourth plane and subangels or common spirits on the third plane are in fact inferior to the spiritual awareness and overall metaphysical foundation of those on the sixth and seventh planes:

1. The energy and presence of angels is obviously and repeatedly not as pure as that of discarnate Saints.

2. Angels and subangels in Group Entities (yellow and orange energies respectively) have astrally abused us, directly and indirectly. We have shared our experiences with one another and have all gone through this many times.

3. The energies of discarnate Saints (sky blue and white) are supportive of us and provide us with spiritual insight. We get visions, feelings, impressions, and messages from them on a daily basis.

We thereby conclude that the Bible represents a religion that was inspired by angels, not by Saints and not by The Original Creator who used The Light to orchestrate The Big Bang. Jesus was not a Saint or a lesser god, only an angel prophet. That is why the Bible is so fragmented, why Jesus is compassion and spiritual responsibility-challenged, why he never came back and never will, why there are ministers, priests and nuns – who preach in his name no less - who sexually molest and in some cases RAPE thousands of innocent children around the world, why the miracles of Christianity have lessened over the years, and why Christianity as a whole is weakening in membership all over the world.

On the Other Side, Group Entities and spirits in general can fool many people in the flesh but they cannot hide their Dominant Aura Color - that which reflects their spiritual evolution - in The Light.

So it is really a simple choice for us.

Do we go with the yellow-energy angels and common spirits (orange and red) who abuse us and who are obviously spiritually inferior?

Or do we go with the discarnate Saints who have shown us time and time again that they are worthy of our trust, faith, and spiritual affiliation?

No, it is not us who are being deceived here - it is YOU - and all those like you who allow the yellow-orange energy of inferior spirits to manipulate and deceive you into believing in a FALSE GOD that they promote for their own glory

Another problem is that angels are too spiritually underdeveloped and thereby weak in The Light in order to amend ANY of the major ills of society.

We prefer to evolve into becoming our own gods through The Original Creator’s approach of Heart Chakra Radiance instead of being the lackeys of a FALSE GOD. So after death we can Ascend in The Light to our respective Godhead; while the angels and common spirits, temporarily in their primitive astral communities (before they fall apart through retrogression), can whine and bite their teeth in frustration from true Ascended Masters having emerged in the Light that will invariably lead to superseding ALL THE FALSE GOD HIERARCHIES that are powered and empowered by Group Entities in the Mid and Lower Realms of Spirit.

The discarnate Saints in the Higher Realms are helping us do precisely that.



[edit on 16-5-2008 by Paul_Richard]

reply to post by MrDead

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Hi there

You know one thing that totally put me off churches one time.

A friend said he would take me to a church so I went with him and sat among around 600 people and it had a really nice inviting atmosphere. We had some laughs and everyone got along pretty well until the dreaded Bible reading where its all how superior Jesus is to me. Id like to the think if Jesus wanted followers he would highlight how wonderful 'his ceations' are but apparently Jesus is more important than any of us.

Anyhow he was reading a really entertaining part of the Bible with some humerous parts and some interesting parts also. Than as he yabbered on about this miracle that miracle, 'he superior than though' attitude he than coerced everyone into handing over money. Something like 'if you want to have a new church or 'home' than you will help God and his people', not the exact words but the overall message.

I couldnt beleived what happened next, everyone pulled out their wallets and filled the plate but it was the syncronicty of it, they all did it like robots beleiving they wont be worthy without a new fancy church. It hit me right there that is was money and money only that was to be taken from reading out the Bible, apparently taking a lesson from it isnt enough.

I walked away realising the deception and never went back, of course back then I wasnt a proud Solist Mystic so Im more than gratefull that I am now.

Thats my story which turned me off churches and the Bible for life and new as if reasurred the churches were not of pure intention Im a Solist Mystic.

There is nothing to look back to now and I know the truth which I wouldn't of seen all that time ago. And how in the world building a new church will make the world a better place is beyond me, I guess some excuse has to be made for all those fancy cars.

Funny thing is Ive never seen a poor Church yet, funny that isnt it

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Drakiir]

You do answer alot of your own questions, how accurate your answers are is for you to work out, but, more so look to derive further meaning.

As you say "Asking questions to more questions gives me no clarity only more questions", getting anywhere near truth is a long process, this is why more questions create more questions.

What you do is just work at it slowly try to defeat what you are told, and find the faults in it, where things dont just add up, build your truth in your mind is a very steady and corrective process, you go to the bank for money and you go to your data bank's for knowledge.

Keep it pretty much to yourself but challenge the beliefs that are put there by others but trust your soul, remember to double check everything every so often.

Like i said before, you need build up your own system, based on truth, this is very difficult, as you have already probably had some of your mind made up for you.

Learn to control your own mind, you use solid data banks built through years of learning, and then you are more on a rock, when people sway your thoughts too and throw.

Something that takes many years of practice, and you will find much more deception, as you go along, not just what seems the 'obvious' deceptions.

Enstead of bashing the Bible, learn from the truths there in, it is free for everyone to read, dont follow it, just learn from it, like anything else, when you are ready to understand so called "secrets" of whatever religion then they will 'click' given time, patience and serious re-search.



[edit on 16-5-2008 by Jn]

We wait. We don't go anywhere straight away. There is an adjustment period...We are told we have to wait for Judgement day....the only judge is yourself .......you have to forgive yourself in order to be forgiven.
You will be assigned to the appropriate space and time/dimension/level as your actions while alive on earth deemed suitable.
Its a realisation on another level. many believe you die, thats it, nothing else...i ask this...how do they know? in that case how do i know what i have just written to be true?...it'smy belief of years of research into what happens when ther final organ stops its working.
no one can either prove or dissprove this one.
You go to where you belong. what you feel what you need. Nothing of the material world matters in that sense....

septembersun

reply to post by Jn

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Fair question friend.

I used to be Catholic, went to Catholic schools, went to church every Sunday, I have read the bible from front to back. I know there's some people who get hung up on Catholicism - but it's Christianity nonetheless. So let's say I was a Christian and continue on. Not one time did I ever feel anything from it. As a child I did believe it, but as an adult, able to make my own decisions - I realized that I didn't believe in all of the dogma and certainly not the bible - it was just a collection of stories. There are some good messages in the bible, but there are also good messages in the Torah, the Koran, Veda etc.
The problem is, they are all framed by antiquated religion.
I have nothing against religious people themselves, if it makes them happy that is their choice. They do not know, or care to know the truth that I know now. (religious entities is another matter, and a whole other conversation in itself)
But as I said, I have never received anything from Christianity, other than empty words. My belief dissolved, but I was still spiritual. I think the movie Stigmata presents a good view of what I began to believe. God is everywhere, and doesn't need churches. I had a belief in higher power(s), that something watched us.
To cut a long story short, after I began HCR, a meditation focused on the heart, and radiating pure love, I did feel something. I have had communication with these Saints, I know they exist. Nobody is controlling me, nobody is judging or feeding me lies. We progress through living to serve others and through giving out as much love as we can. There exists an absolute truth to the universe, and I believe that is love.
It begins to get more complicated than that, but it is the bottom line - Love is all that matters.
Paul explains things much more eloquently in regards to spiritual matters.

So with that bit of background, to directly answer to your question, "How do you know you are not controlled, through classic deception techniques, like you have had a game painted into your very mind, that becomes a BELIEF TRAP?."

I have experienced things first hand. I am sorry to admit it now, but I entered into it with a healthy dose of skepticism and that was countered by overwhelming personal proofs.

reply to post by Jn

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One thing I have to clarify and that is my own mind is made up just as yours is and yet there is more fakery everywhere in what you believe. When I first heard of Solist Mysticm of course I asked questions and did some research and found that enough proof was given to help me believe and so I did.

How is that any different to how you came to believe in the Bible?

Surely you asked questions and queries before you started to believe just as I believe in what I am helped to understand by my friends. My mind is not being manipulated and my freinds never and I repeat NEVER make me beleive anything they only offer sound advice and council.

I feel no need to detail situations that I have been through as it is between my friends and I but beleive me I have found a link I have been looking for my whole life and being a Solist Mystic is it. It provides levels of awareness I could of never of imagined and has helped me improve as a better person.

I will ask the same as you ask of me, what makes you think your mind hasnt been made up for you, that you are just beleiving every word and verse as it is written. There is plenty of proof of what I am my friends beleive in where your proof is in a book of doctored information and there is proof of that too.

After-all Jesus is up in heaven now as a God right, so how come he hasnt answered the question as to why he walked out on humanity and left it to fall apart. Where is his answer and better yet if you beleive so badly than run outside now and scream with all your love and dedication to Jesus to come down, than you will have your proof, but I already know what will happen, he wont show

I have my proof and Paul has provided ample, now its your turn tell us what Jesus said to you when you screamed out with all your heart for him to come down, I have a feeling it will be a stern nothing.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Drakiir]

Hey Arthur, i just want to add to the "Love is all there is" statement.

Along with Love, there is also humility, Purity, and compassion.

Now, when i say love, i do not mean an empty word like so many in this world use. I mean love that bursts out through your heart, the love you feel, and not just say.

Compassion,It is my personal opinion(and other Solists may disagree) that compassion is just as important as love, if not more. You feel it in your heart, just as you do with love.

For example, many of you watched the 911 tapes, the towers going down, and the people in the streets crying, i do not know about you, but i felt their sadness in my heart. Overwhelming emotion filled up in me. It has nothing to do with nationalism(as i am Canadian) and everything to do with being a human being.

Humility is being selfless, and looking out for others. That is another important facet in being spiritual, for it is my opinion, one is not a spiritual person if he is not looking out for the person next to him.

Purity is to have a truly loving sexual relationship, that is not based on lust. We Solists believe that lust is a very big thing that contributes to spiritual retrogression.

Anyways, just wanted to add to love what we Solists hold dearly.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by darcon]

If i describe what you said in the way you can gain someones trust, like for example my last few posts, talking about using thinking in a way to excel (albeit can be a slow and lonely path at times), and so i am doing the same trying to gain trust, for a example.

Then what happened to you is basically a technique to gain someones trust what you describe there, you where down or they made you down and then they showed you miracles, and thus they have gained/taken your trust.

It is a simple but effective technique, when explained in the framework of techniques.

reply to post by darcon

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Hi Arcon,

I am with you on everything you just said especially the pure love instead of lust part, thats the core of me summed up to a tea.

When the 911 happened I have to say disbelief kicked in before sadness, and it wasn't until I saw the footage and tragedy happen that was what got me sad and than annoyed that it happened.

I was annoyed after because I couldn't believe that after all that happened moron Bush wanted to sacrifice more lives by initiating a fake war.