Can God make a stone so heavy that he can not pick it up?

im sorry but that made no sense to me. >,> Could you explain?

to the rest of the posters i say thanks! you have given me something to ponder on.

so the consensus seem to be that god is a spiritual being or not of this demention. So he is not effected by physical limitations like mass or weight. however, how can he effect our universe yet not be effected by it in turn?

Can infinity be more than what it is already?

Alexandros

reply to post by superevoman

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will do

Jesus in human form only has the power the God the father gives him, ergo if God puts a huge rock on earth but doesn't give Jesus the strength to lift it he can achieve your question.

God the father and God the son (Jesus) are just one God but in two different states.

david

reply to post by drevill

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2 problems with that theory

1 - jesus and god are not the same person

2 - according to the trinity doctrine, it states that they are equal in every way.

reply to post by miriam0566

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Hello Miriam

i knew you would be along at some point, Although you know i disagree i hope you are well. i wont be going through this particular argument again with you though

All the best

david

reply to post by drevill

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actually, im fascinated by this particular view.

doesnt the creed state that jesus and god are equal? so assuming for this debate that the trinity is true, then a stone that jesus cant pick up would be the same problem for god wouldnt it?

reply to post by miriam0566

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agghhhh! the temptation was too much to resist.

Please dont issue a Jesus isn't God with your reply as i fully understand your view, just take my view for this.

Jesus was given the holy spirit at his baptism and as such, went on to perform miracles. God the father can remove his holy spirit and Jesus would have the physical limitations of a human body. thus unable to lift the rock

this is how

the post was not would or did but could

david

david

well i love to debate



some quotes from the athanasian creed (i took it from here (www.ccel.org...) since its easy to read, if im mistaken, please let me know)



so according to this jesus ALWAYS has holy spirit.



so jesus doesnt require holy spirit to be almighty



jesus has all the same powers as GOD



jesus is coequal, so he doesnt have limitations

even with the trinity, you still are left with the same question

[edit on 26-5-2008 by miriam0566]

reply to post by miriam0566

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i dont care about any creed Miriam

co equal in authority, the authority used in different ways

parents, mother and father are co equal, different but equal

i can lift more than my wife does that make her not my equal?

Matt 28:18 KJV

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

some of that power could be taken away to enable God on earth (IMHO Jesus) to be limited in physical strength

its hypothetical anyhow

God could limit his strength for a limited time and not be able to pick it up

for me God has the power to do anything so although our minds might not be able to grasp such a thing, i'm sure his could.

david

did i miss something? isnt the creed the foundation of the trinitarian belief?


the creed also says that jesus is almighty


while i certainly think its possible, it conflicts with the notion that jesus and god are equal



i tend to lean towards this belief, its similiar to GOD limiting himself because he chooses too. i went into this with alot of depth earlier

reply to post by miriam0566

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hello Miriam,

I think that both you and I know where i believe the foundation of the "trinity" lies and its not with any creed.

I had a discussion with a Calvanist once who said he was offering sound teaching because it was from men of the reformation. doesn't make it right though does it?

In my mind i see Jesus as God as, to me, this is what the scriptures say.

Could i ask with all respect and genuine interest of how the following verse reads with you and if this has come to pass or when and how it will come to pass?

i promise this is a genuine interest and im not going to argue any particular point as i dont belive there is anything to be gained. im just trying to understand a point of view. That is if you are okay with this. or we can go U2U on it. up to you


Isaiah 9:6 KJV

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

david

im sorry, your right, it was the Babylonians that came up with the trinity.



several things to note

- child, son. these are something you usually refer to a separate being from a father. yes you can say a man can be a father and a son at the same time, but thats only if you involve another man. noone is ever their own father.

- the bible repeated talks about jesus receiving a kingdom not just from his father, but in revelation he gives it back to his father.

- the names are titles. the first one, wonderful is appropriate, his works and deeds are wonderful

- counsellor, counsellor to whom? GOD perhaps?

- mighty god. notice first that it is not ¨almighty¨. only GOD is called ¨almighty¨. Jesus NEVER was called almighty. there is a major difference between powerful and all powerful. god too is title, but it is not exclusive to GOD. satan is also refered to as a god. god could be taken to mean ¨someone powerful¨

- everlasting father. since jesus claimed us by his blood, he can be refered to as our father. without him we have no chance at life. but doesnt nessesarily mean this is the same father as GOD the father

- prince of peace. after armageddon, jesus prince peace. notice its prince, and not king. jesus is still in subject to his father.

john 5:[19] Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

john 6:[38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

john 7:[16] Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

mat 20:[23] And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

luke 22:[42] Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

dont worry, i never saw you as a mean type. u2u me anytime you´d like

reply to post by miriam0566

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hello

can i ask, so i understand your position, do you believe that we can attain god hood, become gods etc? do you believe Jesus was "A" god or a man or something else?

thanks Miriam

david

caught me as im going to work, ill give the quick answer now and ill post the supporting scriptures later.

god is a title. it can be given to anyone. satan is called a god, angels are called godlike, jesus is called a god. wooden statues are called god.

can a man become god like? that is a very deep question, basically i believe if god wills it yes, but they are still lower than GOD (Jah).

what i believe about jesus

- jesus was the firstborn of all creation (he was created)
- jesus was god's master worker (GOD used him to create all things)
- jesus was a powerful spirit being.
- jesus was sent to earth to die for our sins
- jesus became flesh and blood
- jesus was perfect
- jesus died (GOD cannot die)
- jesus was resurrected
- jesus was made king by his father
- jesus will conquer evil

jesus is as the bible says, GOD's son

reply to post by miriam0566

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okay

it may be a while for my response as im off on hols in a few days,. ive just bagged an allottment-that im sure ive seen a volocerapter lurking within and it's going to take a bit of effort after work to get some of it cleared nad ive been roped in to helping the old boy on the next plot.

Heathers pregnant and im running around like a mad un

david

[edit on 26/5/2008 by drevill]

God is capable of defying logic. For example in the Bible, God performs all sorts of miracles that defy the laws of nature and logic.

So he can both make a stone he cannot pick up and pick the stone up at the same time. God can also make 1+1 =3 or make like charges attract eachother and opposite charges repel eachother.

Hello

I believe

Jesus is God in Human form and therefore always existed and not created.

That Jesus was perfect and sinless

Became Flesh and died for the sins of those who believe in him as their Saviour. (predestined, see below)

Just as God has the ability to separate himself he can die and did a human death on the cross and raised himself

I believe that God is aware of every thing from start to finish and because of that he is fully aware who is saved and on that level i believe that we have no free will and that we only have the illusion of free will

I believe in predestination

I believe in the fallen angels theory and this is why i believe in predestination

I believe in the literal translation of genesis

Although as God he could do anything including making us a type of god he demonstrates he will not tolerate this time and again so i do not think anyone has or will be.

I dont think any of us will have all the truth and it is important to learn from each other.

I am against "organised religion"


David

reply to post by drevill

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i shall keep this all in mind in future debates..

good holiday i hope