Non Christians What If The Bible Is True?

reply to post by Bigwhammy

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I don't believe a couple pieces of evidence makes the Bible true.

And how about the fact that there are many cities that have the same names today?

Could this not be the case back then also? It still proves very little.


[edit on 25-3-2008 by Realtruth]

reply to post by Realtruth

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I never said it proved everything

It's just that consistently as they uncover more stuff it backs up the accuracy of the Bible, not the other way around.

Lack of evidence proves nothing but lack of evidence. I admit theres not a lot, and a lot of that is a political problem. They will not allow archaeologists to dig up a lot of the areas in the middle east. Imagine what they could find under modern Jerusalem.

But when they do find stuff it supports the Bible. It has not gone the other way that I am aware of.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

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Without stepping on toes here.

Faith is just that, you either believe or not. Everyone has to find their own path and I don't believe there are any wrong paths, just different. Some may be a be longer though.

reply to post by Realtruth

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Cool bro... we all have to find our way.

consider that there is such a thing as evidence based faith though.

www.evidenceofgod.com...

Hey, Whammers. Interesting information. Question. Do you know where I can find more information about the following:



I would really like to learn more about it and to confirm from other sources. Never heard of this before but this is fascinating. Do you know of any other reliable sources that mention this? Or where the histories are found? I know Q&A articles can be pretty vague and answer questions quickly but I'd really like to know more when you get a chance.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

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Actually I already have. Check out my website; michelelyon.com. But I will consider doing a thread on this very thing. I am not afraid of a challenge with other posters. Look to my thread - Is the Cross Just Another Lie?

I believe that there are a lot of hidden clues in the Bible, and I find it fun to explore.

[edit on 28-3-2008 by MatrixProphet]

reply to post by idle_rocker

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Thank you, but that is exactly what I have done. I was quite a Bible thumper for most of my life and studied it vigorously for decades along with reading it in its entirety several times. I am not young and can appreciate what you are saying.

This spiritual journey has actually been a long one. One that has included many awarenesses.

"A spiritual awakening is when your core spirit aligns with Gods reality."

It has been a challenge to go outside of the box to see things in a different light. I had to gain the wisdom to know the difference which isn't always easy.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

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I took a look and honestly all I can say is....


Well.......

Isn't that special?

reply to post by Bigwhammy

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LOL! I assume you mean this in the spirit of Love?

reply to post by MatrixProphet

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In the most loving and caring way possible.... hehehe

I hope you try to distinguish between the teachings of Jesus, Paul and the disciples and the teachings of the Catholic church. They added quite a bit, and I may tend to agree with some of your theories regarding their additions.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

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I do! Big time! I am quite the rocker of boats and I love it. Mind you...I was addicted to religion in the past and have been set free, so it opened up a channel that I would not have noticed existed nor would have known what to do with.

I love your signature! I am putting it into one of my quote books.

A spiritual alignment with God is the bases of revelation and truth, it is how the writers of scripture received Gods word, and is the same process which must be used for all interpretation of what is true, regardless of the source you use to seek truth.

The word truth should be defined to include revelation knowledge in my opinion.

Anything that leads a man in his heart to draw nearer to God should also be called truth, and be part of the definition of the word when we say truth.

We are a sense knowledge creature, that is to say we garner information via our five senses and view the knowledge we obtain outwardly as the fullness of what can be real and therefore true, but the spiritual is in fact the greatest portion of reality, and the senses based knowledge only our perceptions of reality.

All of the physical material universe is a manifestation of the spiritual even the substance of our form.

The apostles and prophets who wrote the bible understood this, even the man named Jesus of Nazareth in scripture would have viewed his life in context of the broader spiritual reality, that is he would have held a quantum view of gravity, seeing his life as only a lesser part of a greater reality.

The men and women that write, and have written down things for God, know and knew, that only those individuals who sought enlightenment as they themselves did, would find what they had written useful.

It is God who gives the interpretation, illuminated into the heart of only the individual seeking, in real time, uniquely tailored for that specific individual in a way that it will provide the profit of being doctrine, reproof, and correction, for that individual when applied to that individuals exact circumstances.

This is why only those who see themselves, in the happening of their lives, as God's will expressed and experienced, in and from the reality that they occupy, as the word made flesh, as one with God, or as the apostle Paul who describe all those in whom dwelled the sprit God, abiding in us as we abide in Him, living and real.

God not only exists in reality He constructs the greater reality in which our form resides.

Once again it comes down to the fact that if you claim to be with God then He must be with you, and if He is indeed there, then there should be definable measurable ways to validate His presence in your life.

If God exists in reality, we can't see all truth in any one thing but we can see some truth in everything, therefore everything real must contain within its construct a portion which we should be able to identify clearly as God, that component which God effects in real time.

How many people can point to the part of their life in real time, that is God?

People need desperately to manifest spiritual power, to experience the knowledge of the presence of God, to know and be physically reassured that God is with them and in them, and yet everyone seems so afraid?

This is the ultimate conspiracy. In the end, God will smile and say, "Devil.. come on out!" and this guy will come out, and laugh, and they will shake hands. It will be a lot like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

He was just "acting" like the bad guy to give you an "option". So do you return the "everlasting gobstopper"? or give it to Mr. Slugworth? (aka satan)


That is of course... if you believe in the bible. Which of course, I do not. But think on this:

Evil came from somewhere. I use to be an evangelist, and according to the bible, satan does NOT have the power to create. Which means he did NOT create his own evil. God did. So therefore, God created all wrong. All death. All evil.

reply to post by EagleTalonZ

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I have explained this before in the thread but God did not create evil.


There is such a thing as heat. It is energy we can add heat infinitely.

However there is no such "thing" as cold. Cold is simply the absence of heat.
There is a finite bottom that will never get "colder"-273.15 °C = 0 Kelvin.

Consider that if God is love. And evil is the absence of Love.

Them the absence of God is evil.

So God didn't create evil.

Man did when he rejected Gods plan by disobedience.

Well, while I will say I like your scientific view, I do not completely agree.

True, men did disobey, but they had an evil accomplice to that fall. And Lucifer was the first to demonstrate evil, while in the midst of God's presence.

The problem lies in this: God did create freewill, but in order for that to be truth, He had to also create options in mentality for them to have a choice between right and wrong. So.. God had to place wrong thoughts, in order to demonstrate right thoughts.

So once again, you're back at square one. God was still the ultimate source of creation. And therefore, the ultimate creator of evil.

Regardless of if darkness is the absence of light... He created that darkness to contrast the light. Or else we would all be robots without sin. Because sin would not exist without His assistance in creating this option.

reply to post by EagleTalonZ

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No. Because Darkness does not really "exist". It is really an adjective not a noun in the most literal sense. You can't measure darkness, you measure light. Same with cold. My argument is evil works the same way.

What God did do, was give us free will - so we would not be robots - that opened up the possibility for disobedience (but would you want a spouse that was forced to marry you?)

But that's not the same as God dictating it or creating evil. He is Holy and incapable of evil. Evil is his polar opposite. It's like saying you were frozen by a fire.

I think you are a very intelligent person, and I love this discussion. Your argument goes beyond what most Christians have even been able to comprehend. And while I use to be one who found myself arguing the points you're making now, I still do not agree.

If God is as He says He is. The Alpha and Omega. The Beginning and The End. Without Him, there is nothing, and through Him, all exists. Nothing was created, or in existence, without His breath of life therein. He was, is, and will always be. According to the bible.

This states, that ALL is created through Him. And that there are no such corners in the existence of life to which one could hide, or create a darkness of such depth that His holiness cannot penetrate.

He created life, and created science. He created hot, and therefore, created the absolute zero. He created an opposite to all things. Man- woman. Dark- light. Hot- Cold. Satan- God. He is all. That is, if you believe in what He has said.

And if you would like proof to such an agreement, just read the book of Job. Satan was already in heaven. He pays attention to the things that are discussed, however... the bible says, "No sin is allowed into heaven" So it is a vast contradiction to what is stated. So if Satan is already in heaven, we have one out of place. Then, to take it further, God allows him to attack his "man, Job, who is unlike any other man in his devotion to God". So Satan is allowed to take out Job's entire family, estate, and even attack his health.

Do those people not matter? Did the wife not have as much say so? The children? Or are there certain people who are truly chosen to do greatness, while others are actually destined for hell? Such as Judas.

God did create darkness. He did create satan.

I'll be eagerly awaiting your response to this. But please know I'm not insulting you, or attacking you. I would like for one person to finally be able to reason out the bible. However, you have a very daunting task before you. Men much older, and wiser than us have argued this out for ages and have went to their eternal rest with it still unanswered. I wish you well...

reply to post by EagleTalonZ

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I see your points. I understand why you think it seems unjust, like what happened to Jobs family... But what is justice? Having a successful life by worldly standards? God never promises that at all. In fact, he tells us to store up treasures in heaven.

For instance Jobs kids that got killed. How do we know that God didn't make it up to them in heaven? Remember Jesus taught he who is first will be last and he who is last will be first? So maybe you get screwed and have one leg and are blind... maybe in heaven you get to be a Puff Daddy King?

I don't know, I have a feeling it will all come out in the wash and God is going to be more fair and generous than we are capable of imagining with our little human brains.

reply to post by newday

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I appreciated what you said. Please read on my thread; The Cross...." what I say about being a prophet. You might be interested!



Unless he talks to you, then it is pretty clear!

[edit on 31-3-2008 by MatrixProphet]