My Eight Year Old Son, The Criminal

crazy enough, that exact same thing happened to a girl that went to my high school (almost 10 years ago). she was moving apartments, and had a box marked "kitchen" in the back of her car, which was open. a security guard was driving through the senior parking lot in a golf cart, saw the knife, and she was arrested and taken away in handcuffs.

She was expelled and had to finish up high school privately.

Well, according to the OP's story, yes: Pretending (intent) to shoot someone by pointing your finger at them like a gun is WAY different then pointing your finger in a direction of something or someone as if to say "look, over there".








[edit on 1-11-2007 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by scientist

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This happen in my neck of the woods and the high school my children attended.

Two years ago a boy was caught with a knife in the back of his truck at the school parking lot, the boy got off the charges when he claimed that the knife in his truck was a hunting knife.

This is the south and I guess is OK to carry hunting knives and shotguns.



[edit on 1-11-2007 by marg6043]

Well, we just got cameras in our school.

I would be in prison for all the knives and guns I reenacted, wrote about, and drew all those years ago in class, and your son is being charged for pointing.

New national security slogan: No pointing, no problem!


Nyorai

[edit on 1/11/2007 by Nyorai]

When I first read what the OP wrote I thought they were lying (no offense I just could not believe it!).

If this is the state of the USA these days then I will never ever go there and I am glad that I live some distance away.

The USA sounds more and more like a police state everyday.
Kids playing and Homeland Security is called in?

Ridiculous!



[edit on 1-11-2007 by Tiste Andii]

[edit on 1-11-2007 by Tiste Andii]

Once the sheriff at school during lunch was staring at me for saying to my friend that i'm gonna kick his ass.

Ok so now intent is proven simple because the finger in question was formed in the shape of a gun ?
So we are to believe that because you point a finger at a person , in the shape of a gun , you are wishing them dead ? Give me a break .
I ask again , just who is to decide intent ?

Lest we forget we are speaking of a child .

reply to post by guanna

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Wow remember the old days when boys and girls could be just that?
When kids could play and draw and not get charges filed against them?

Man we not only made fingure gestures like that as a kid but even had plastic guns and made sound like bang, bang. Today a child might be given he chair for that sort of thing.

This is the sort of thing that makes a person want to say:
Welcome to America the land of the formerly free and the no longer brave.

Raist

I'm still catching up on the reading here, thanks for the out pouring of support. To answer your question, they told me of no official statute or anything. I live in Arizona as well. Thanks!

ok if my mafia thing wasn't enough for you get this: i guess i was naive at the time but i once drew the twin towers and the planes for a group of fellow classmates to sketch out a possibility that they weren't real or that there was something illogical about it all. anyway i got busted- teacher did not like that at all. nothing happened just disapproval, i didn't get it at the time. i still dont know if it was insensitive to draw 9/11.

reply to post by greeneyedleo

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Threats

Spoken or written words tending to intimidate or menace others.

Statutes in a number of jurisdictions prohibit the use of threats and unlawful communications by any person. Some of the more common types of threats forbidden by law are those made with an intent to obtain a pecuniary advantage or to compel a person to act against his or her will. In all states, it is an offense to threaten to (1) use a deadly weapon on another person; (2) injure another's person or property; or (3) injure another's reputation.

It is a federal offense to threaten to harm the president or to use the mail to transmit threatening communications. These laws must be balanced against First Amendment rights.

Unlawful communications include, among other things, the use of threats to prevent another from engaging in a lawful occupation and writing libelous letters or letters that tend to provoke a breach of the peace. The use of intimidation for purposes of collecting an unpaid debt has been held to constitute an unlawful communication but might be prosecuted as extortion......like i said they're propably going to charge him with threatening which is a crime

This was your son??????
I live in Canada and heard this story on my favourite radio station.The DJs "tooled" Homeland Security for this absurdity.I couldn't believe what I was hearing.Make believe guns are illegal? America is slowly falling to pieces and your government is doing it's best to control every action every citizen makes.
It would laughed out of court here at home.
My thoughts are with you and your family and I hope you can get it worked out.

reply to post by citizen truth

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see part of it atleast from my perspective has to do with the crack down on gang violence.. i know plenty of kids that are in elementary right now and are bangers. the thing is they cant apply one rule to one school and not to the rest or there's a possibility theyll get sued. now while this may seem harmless the whole make believe gun thing is alot different in some places and means something incredibly different. i dont support what theyre doing here cause it was obviously just some kids playing around but thats more than likely why they filed a police report than the police propably reported it to HSA. i donno ive been in plenty of fights at school that ended with us screaming "your done fool the next time i see you im pumping lead" of course they were idle threats (most of the time) we never were reported to HSA

if they hate gun gestures so much...why not ban it then. element the sales of it. but since its a free country people can buy guns but cant point fingers, because thats just wrong.

I am looking for a possible statute... I believe that the state is Arizona?

So far this is all I have:
Article 13, Title 1202: Threatening or intimidating; classification

A. A person commits threatening or intimidating if the person threatens or intimidates by word or conduct:

1. To cause physical injury to another person or serious damage to the property of another; or

2. To cause, or in reckless disregard to causing, serious public inconvenience including, but not limited to, evacuation of a building, place of assembly or transportation facility; or

3. To cause physical injury to another person or damage to the property of another in order to promote, further or assist in the interests of or to cause, induce or solicit another person to participate in a criminal street gang, a criminal syndicate or a racketeering enterprise.

B. Threatening or intimidating pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1 or 2 is a class 1 misdemeanor, except that it is a class 6 felony if:

1. The offense is committed in retaliation for a victim's either reporting criminal activity or being involved in an organization, other than a law enforcement agency, that is established for the purpose of reporting or preventing criminal activity.

2. The person is a criminal street gang member.

C. Threatening or intimidating pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 3 is a class 3 felony.

That is all that I can find that might encompass intimidating gestures... but I am still looking at Arizona law, and will check federal law next.

Or, possibly Disorderly Conduct:
13-2904. Disorderly conduct; classification

A. A person commits disorderly conduct if, with intent to disturb the peace or quiet of a neighborhood, family or person, or with knowledge of doing so, such person:

1. Engages in fighting, violent or seriously disruptive behavior; or

2. Makes unreasonable noise; or

3. Uses abusive or offensive language or gestures to any person present in a manner likely to provoke immediate physical retaliation by such person; or

4. Makes any protracted commotion, utterance or display with the intent to prevent the transaction of the business of a lawful meeting, gathering or procession; or

5. Refuses to obey a lawful order to disperse issued to maintain public safety in dangerous proximity to a fire, a hazard or any other emergency; or

6. Recklessly handles, displays or discharges a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.

B. Disorderly conduct under subsection A, paragraph 6 is a class 6 felony. Disorderly conduct under subsection A, paragraph 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 is a class 1 misdemeanor.

Lets ad one more nail to the coffin holding our rights. The house passed a bill called HR 1955 to ad meat to homeland security. The name it shall be known as is "Thought Crime Prevention bill". So now they can describe your crime in what ever fashion they so choose. So besides there seize your property for demonstrating against the war law, thinking about it can be a crime. Starting with kids in school, the system is creating a database that will follow you for life. Imagine, a kid does a simple gesture and gets a record following through out life. Thats crazy folks.

I will try to keep looking to see if there is something under federal law...

I am more familiar with Louisiana law, which is much different from all other states, but here your son's age would make a difference. In Louisiana an 8 year old is not considered to be capable of forming criminal intent, and would not be charged with a crime. Capacity to form criminal intent begins at age 10. I am not sure about your state's law on this.

Hope this helps in any way.

reply to post by guanna

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Here's what you can do. Pull your student out of government controlled education camp and home school him. That deny's the state both the right to brainwash your child as well as denies them public funding for your child.

Let me get this straight, the school states that they had to file a report over this and that their hands are tied? Yet, as you say above, the gesture has to imply harmful intent in order for charges to be brought. So, I don't buy for a second the school's opinion of having their hands tied. Someone at the school HAD TO MAKE THE DETERMINIATION THAT POINTING A FINGER AT SOMEONE WAS DONE WITH HARMFUL INTENT. Sorry about the shouting.

How mad can I get about this crap.

So, you have someone's opinion of what harmful intent is and suddenly the school's hands are tied? What frickin' nonsense this is. Someone at the school is responsible for making that determination.

I'd be on the phone to every newspaper and TV station in the area and relay the story to them. I'd make sure that I repeat over and over again how the school filed the report, how the school made the determination that the inent was harmful. I'd feel no remorse whatsoever putting the school right in the middle of a major public relations nightmare. I'd let the public's outcry and parental outrage work itself out.

So, let me take a stab that nobody actually talked with your son and the other student about the INTENT of the finger pointing. Some teacher probably had some training (during one of those informative teacher in-service days) that has them on some powertrip to make their report to FREAKIN HOMELAND SECURITY!!!!

Someone tell me what year it is....I'm thinking it's 1939 Germany all over again. Surely the end is near!