The Rapture Conspiracy Explained

Pokey Oats

You are very rude and yes you have not brought anything to the thread but double talk and insults to me and Flyers.

Get with the topic and bring it on if you have anything meaningful to say.

They never removed anything. They have kept on to the original text. It was the schismatic churches that abridged the text.



So what? The reverence (not worship) for Mary is a genuinely old practice in the Catholic tradition, going back to the early Fathers. It's a more genuinely Early Christian idea than "the Rapture".

Actually, we can trace this reverence to the Babylonian queen of heaven, Semiramis.

She definitly doesn't have to quote scripture in order to discuss the topic. If you feel that she or anyone else is off base, then don't continue having an off base discussion with them.

I am new and wish to comment. Please excuse the length.

*Friendly Note*
Terral, before I make my point, I wish to ask that you humble yourself and stop being unchrist-like in your confrontational behavior. If this is not possible then please stop saying 'In Christ Jesus' at the end of each post. You defame and insult the name of Christ in doing so. Thank you

Terral, since you believe you have interpreted scripture correctly then which is correct? Did the pretribulation Rapture go undiscovered for 1,800 years, or has it simply been the belief of “TRUE Christians” ever since Christ walked the earth.

It's obvious that you comfort yourself, like many others do, with a "we're going to be outta here" mentality. Not to worry about anything.

We should note that the Bible teaches that the Great Commission will succeed, and that the nations will convert to saving faith in Jesus Christ. This makes any idea of any premillenial "rapture" -- a wanton escape pod -- unnecessary, unbiblical and unfaithful.

My first question to you is why do you want the saints to flee from their responsibility of pursuing the great commission and dominion mandate -- which includes the building of hospitals, schools and businesses that last for generations -- when the Bible says we will win? How is teaching them, "We all might go away tomorrow" consistent with the idea of building for generations?

Fact: those who believe in the secret rapture myth do not build beautiful cathedrals; they do not build anything to last over generations. They often meet in "motel 6" churches, buildings designed for little more than an overnight stay.

If the word of the Lord works so powerfully as to accomplish all for which God sends it, and if God has sent it to convert souls -- or the nations of the world (according to Matthew 28:18-20) -- then how could it fail to do so?" And if it succeeds, what need have we of any "Rapture"? Shouldn't we rather spend our time building up and improving our communities for the generations to come, and not squander our time staring up into the sky hoping for a quick exit?

The Bible holds forth The Lord Christ as One who cannot fail. It is His nature to secure victory, and overcome all obstacles to his goals because as the Sovereign Lord, He both made and controls all things. Yet the rapture NEEDS the great commission -- given by Christ -- to fail. Otherwise, why would Jesus have to return personally to intervene and rescue the saints? If you will recall, the early Christian church overtook the Roman Empire just BECAUSE God refused to rescue his martyrs from death. If He had "Raptured" them to keep them from harm's way in a world gone mad, how would the gospel then have prevailed? Any theory that needs Jesus to fail in his plans for humanity has doomed itself to failure from the beginning.

You have Christ returning bodily to keep his Church from extinction, as though the Lord's original plan -- convert the nations by the gospel -- will have had failed altogether. And yet God does not have a "plan B." He doesn't need one.

If God authored the Great Commission, how can it fail to convert the nations -- God's stated goal in Matthew 28:18-20? Can God fail?

Moreover, Psalm 110 says that the Messiah will remain seated [on a throne] at God's right hand until ALL Christ's enemies are made his footstool

How can you say Christ will descend in the Rapture -- thereby leaving his throne -- before Scripture says He will? Were the Psalmist and Paul simply mistaken, or are the Premillenial Rapture proponents in error?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. -- continued--

There are three problems with claiming this passage refers to the Rapture.

First, neither it nor the entire book of 1 Thessalonians mentions Christ returning two more times, or makes any reference to such a distinction.
Second, dispensationalists believe the Rapture will be a secret and silent event, yet this passage describes a very loud and public event. This is all the more problematic because dispensationalists insist that they interpret Scripture “plainly” and “literally,” allowing for symbolism only when such is the obvious intent of the author.
Finally, dispensationalists teach that all other New Testament references to Christ coming in the clouds (Matthew 24:30 and 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7) refer to His Second Coming but inexplicably deny that that is the case here.

We would do far better in the end to drop any foolish notions of some cosmic "Great Coffee Break" the Bible never promised -- and which God does not want -- and get on with the business of preaching the historically orthodox gospel, which calls Christians to build up their communities - to leave them better than we found them - for the glory of God, and for the benefit of men and women everywhere, both now and in the generations to come. For, Paul said, "We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works ...."

And good works begin with shunning bad doctrine, saying only what God has said. For it is written, "Do not add to the words of the Lord, lest he reprove thee and show thee a liar" (Proverbs 30). - Carson Day

[edit on 26-9-2006 by WuXia]

Hi MrMic:



Peter and the ‘early rains’ (James 5:7*) kingdom bride (John 3:29) was ‘cut off’ (Rev. 20:4) in 70 AD (see diagram again) and THEY will be raised with us to sit on thrones judging “Israel” (Luke 22:30). Revelation 20:4 has nothing whatsoever to do with the ‘body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12 = that’s us) ‘caught up’ (1Thes. 4:17) when the “Day of the Lord” (1Thes. 5:1+2) is “at hand” (2Thes. 2:2). Christ ruling on the earth for 1000 years is a MYTH! Please try to make that case using Scripture. GL. Peter and the early rains bride reigns with Christ from heaven upon the ‘sea of glass’ (Rev. 4:6, 15:2) “before the throne” (Rev. 7:15) of the Lamb. Elijah returns to restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11) in the days following our Rapture. The ‘late rains*’ kingdom bride is gathered and prepared by Elijah ‘during’ the 1000 Years “Day of the Lord” that FOLLOWS our Rapture. However, Satan and his Beast are released and deceive the whole world into believing the devil’s “son of destruction” (2Thes. 2:3+4) is God Himself. The late rains kingdom bride is martyred like Christ says,



Now, return with me to Revelation 7 to see where these souls are gathered from the ‘great tribulation,’



Keep in mind that the Dragon’s Beast (Rev. 13) is numbering ever person on the earth and giving each his mark (Rev. 13:16-18) and those refusing are martyred (“cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.” Rev. 13:15). The late rains kingdom bride under Elijah will not worship the image of the beast and every one of them will be killed. “The Elect” of Matthew 24:31 answer God’s call through the “eternal gospel” (Rev. 14:6) in the final hour, before the final Battle of Armageddon begins.



Find “Today” on the Mystery/Prophecy Timeline. We are now approaching the ‘start’ of the “1000 Year Day of the Lord” shaded in blue. Elijah’s “Bride Matures” during THAT 1000 years period that has yet to even begin. However, look above in Heaven and note the “Lamb” positioned directly in the “center of the throne” (Rev. 7:17). You and I are members of the Lamb’s body (Christ’s body = 1Cor. 12:27) to be found “IN” Him. : 0 ) Elijah’s late rains bride joins Peter’s “Early Rains Bride” (see diagram) at the Lamb’s right hand, which is ‘before the throne.’ You and I are “IN” Christ and we judge the world (all men must join the ‘bride’ first, THEN we judge them for entry into the Lamb) and the angels (1Cor. 6:2+3 = from the invisible sea on the far side of the sea of glass).

[Continued]

. . . Peter, John and James are part of the ‘Early Rains Bride’ through obeying the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, etc.), while Paul, Barnabas and Titus are already “IN” the Lamb Himself through obedience to Paul’s “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message. You and I join Christ’s body with Paul, while Elijah’s late rain’s bride joins Peter, John, etc..



No sir. Satan and all the members of his unholy body of darkness (Eph. 6:12) are chained (Rev. 20:2) to START the “Day of the Lord” with the trumpet (1Cor. 15:52, 1Thes. 4:16) heard “behind” John in Revelation 1:10. Revelation 20 is an overview of the entire 1000 years “Day of the Lord” from Satan’s perspective. However, the “Lord’s Day” (Rev. 1:10 = Day of the Lord) begins way back in Revelation 1. The entire 1000 Years pass in the first 3 chapters of Revelation, with chapters 4-20 telling the same ‘end of the age events’ (Matt. 24:3-31) over and over again from different perspectives. Go back and look at the diagram again (Day of the Lord). The OT prophets like Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah, etc. all see over the top of this current mystery time of today (2000 Years), but they see clearly into the 1000 years “Day of the Lord.” Daniel’s 70th week takes place on the far right hand side (purple) of the “Day of the Lord,” just prior to Christ’s physical return to this earth. The “Messiah” (Dan. 9:25+26) to be “cut off” at the ‘end’ of the 1000 years is “David” (Eze. 34:22-25). Satan is released at the ‘end’ of the 1000 Years Day of the Lord to make desolate the same kingdom and Temple that Elijah began restoring 1000 years earlier, just after our Rapture! The Beast, False Prophet (Rev. 19:20) and Satan (Rev. 20:10) are all thrown into the lake of fire at about the same time. The great battle in both chapters (Rev. 19+20) is the same battle of Armageddon of Rev. 14 and 16. Chapter 19 is from the Beast’s perspective and Chapter 20 is from Satan’s perspective.



Elijah returns to restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11) alone. The two witnesses of Rev. 11:3 are the first two witnesses also appearing last; our father Adam and his wife Eve. : 0 ) What the people do to these two witnesses are done to their own father and mother.



You are taking Christ’s words out of context. The Son of God knows exactly how the ‘Day of the Lord’ ENDS, which He described in great detail throughout His Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24:3-31). The part Christ has no clue about is when the 1000 Years “Day of the Lord” will BEGIN! You and I are living in the days just prior to the Day of the Lord STARTING. There is no verse of Scripture that can accurately give you that date or time, because ONLY the Father knows (Matt. 24:36) and by “His own authority” (Acts 1:7). Once the 1000 years Day of the Lord actually starts, then Christ knows all the events leading up to Satan’s release, the Beast’s appearance in the Holy Place (Matt. 24:15) and His own return (Matt. 24:30+31).

[Continued Again]

Christ chained Satan to START the “Lord’s Day” at the time of our Rapture with the ‘voice of the archangel’ (1Thes. 4:16). Remember that Michael the Archangel and Satan had a dispute over the “body of Moses” (Jude 1:9), but this time Christ Himself is chaining Satan while gathering the members of the “body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12 = that’s us). The trumpet (1Cor. 15:52, 1Thes. 4:16) heard “behind” John (Rev. 1:10) marks Satan being chained to start the 1000 Year Day of the Lord.



No sir. By that time we will already have been “IN” the Lamb of Revelation for almost 1000 years. We were raptured back in Rev. 1 with the trumpet heard ‘behind’ John (Rev. 1:10 = 1Thes. 4:16+17).

In Christ Jesus,

Terral [End]

Mr. Terral

Another question taking into consideration that you seem to like questions.

Are you part of the new group that wants to dismiss the old Pre tribulation/Rapture theories and interpretation and are coming our with their own definition of what the bible references said about the issue?

Why is necessary to extent the 1000 years? With new interpretations.

What makes the old believes wrong and the new ones the right ones specially your theory.

Let me remind you that you are just posting your own conclusions and that is you own personal interpretation.

Another thing you use poster board images like somebody that is used to do presentations of their ideology.

Are you a teacher of the new interpretations?

For a person like me that are skeptical of the myth of the Tribulation/Rapture what can you say to prove to me that this is no just of your own invention base on personal interpretations . . .

Or do you consider yourself a prophet of some kind.

The bottom line is this .... it is not required to believe in the rapture myth in order to be 'saved'.

'Rapture myth' has nothing to do with salvation and is totally unneeded and unnecessary .. unnecessary for salvation and unnecessary to waste time on.

- It is NOT in scripture. In fact scripture says the exact opposite of rapture.
- It is NOT part of God's M.O. He has never pulled his saints out of the line of fire.
- It is NOT part of any Sacred Tradition. It was made up by Nelson Darby in the 1800s.
- It is NOT accepted by most of the 2 billion Christians on this planet.

- It is NOT a good use of time to push this unnecessary myth when the time could be used to preach the teachings of Christ.

- It is NOT good for the soul to believe in the myth because when it doesn't happen and the tribulations come about, the soul will not be prepared and it will have it's faith in God shaken to it's very core. Rapture myth is a doctrine of the devil to cause souls to loose faith in the end.

What is truly amazing is the fact that this myth has been exposed for it's fakery .. and yet we still have people pushing it as if their salvation depended on it. It has been exposed as a fake through historical evidence (Nelson Darby) and through scriptural evidence (scripture says the exact opposite of 'rapture').
www.belowtopsecret.com...


The ONLY 'Rapture Conspiracy' going on is that there are still people out there who push this non-scriptural man-made baloney and there are also those who make a ton of money off people that they get to buy into it - like the William T. James (Terry) gang



[edit on 9/26/2006 by FlyersFan]

Hi Toolman:



That is a little over the top; don’t you think? There are over 2000 denominations of ‘professing’ Christians and about that many interpretations of Scripture. What all of them have to say on this topic is utterly useless. Scripture is describing ‘something’ in 1Corinthians 15:51-55 and 1Thessalonians 4:13-17, which includes:



Please allow me to ask you if these verses or something very similar appear in your Bible? Yes they certainly do. Terral did not make this stuff up any more than Darby or the man on the moon. What everyone here needs to see is Toolman’s interpretations on exactly what Scripture is saying right here and what this means to you. If Toolman wants to sit there with Flyer and his comrades simply unwilling to believe God, then please take your place among the unbelievers. Go ahead and enjoy yourself marching to the pitter patter footsteps of skeptics, doubters and scoffers. However, each scoffer should realize that if God and His Word are not to be believed, then you have nothing at your disposal to offer anyone. Stand with the atheists proclaiming ‘There is no God!’ to their own shame.

Again, if the scoffers wasting valuable archive space with their unbelief cannot write two sentences of commentary on what Paul “is teaching” in 1Cor. 15 AND 1Thes. 4 on this topic (harpazo #726 = 1Thes. 4:17), so the rest of us can come to realize what these things mean to them, then they have no business writing two words on this thread at all – period!



The Bush Administration, their Defense Department pals and Oil Giant buddies have nothing to do with God’s Word on this Rapture Topic and my hypothesis presented in the OP of this thread. The knee-jerk reaction of many ATS members is to read the topic title and rush to add their two cents, whether to exhibit their own denial or political views about something else. This thread has every opportunity to become a great tool for educating and edifying the members of “Christ’s body” (1Cor. 12:27) among the membership. However, we should allow the members who have sufficiently researched the topic to present their opposing views using Scripture in a reasonably calm and deliberate atmosphere apart from what everybody else wants to make it. The debate has already started, so at least “quote >>” somebody to give your words context to something in the discussion. If anything in my OP appears foolish, then “quote me >>” and correct the foolish using Scripture. THEN we will certainly have something to ‘debate.'



Heh . . . If that were true, then “Harpazo” (#726) would not appear in Scripture and the Bible Dictionaries. Ostriches might have large drumsticks, but those with their heads jammed into the sand still have no business writing here. GL.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Hi Terral,

I would like to cut through some of the confusion that seems to exist and ask for the NAME OF YOUR GOD.

What is the name that your god is called?

Thank you.

Terral is still referring to himself as Terral. Very strange.
Did the William T. James (Terry) cultists make it up?



I'm a girl. OBVIOUSLY you aren't bothering to read anything people are posting or you would have seen that many pages ago. Your agenda is clear.



So now you are saying it is necessary to believe in a rapture in order to be saved? WRONG. Dead WRONG. Unbelievably and unmistakenly completely WRONG.


Again; we don't scoff - we KNOW; and we have posted link after link that completely DESTROYS your theory.



WRONG again. The members posting here have every right to be here, and it certainly IS our business to be posting. Especially since just about all of us seem to know more about the rapture myth than you do.

Oh .. and the previous poster was indeed correct. Your attitude isn't bringing people to Christ. You really think you are christ-like enough to make it on a magic carpet ride outta' here before all heck breaks loose? That's not only arrogance, but a major fantasy

DENY IGNORANCE.



[edit on 9/26/2006 by FlyersFan]

FlyersFan said:

"Terral is still referring to himself as Terral. Very strange. "


I have been watching Terral's replies, and his common use of the phrase "No sir" at the beginning of his sentences and 'fundie' view of the scripture tends to make me think that he is a resident of Terral, OK

[www.epodunk.com...]

Terral, OK demographics:
Median household income - $15,972
Total population 386
Bachelor's degree 8

Churches: Baptist Church, Terral First Baptist Church and First Assembly of God

If this is in fact the truth about him. Then we should consider the source and ignore his ignorant views.. and they are truly ignorant. He thinks that he has a firm grasp on scripture and he has none.

Hi Sacrifice:

Thank you very much for writing on the Rapture Conspiracy Thread. I appreciate your attempts to throw the scoffers a bone with the “Source PDF” information (posted on 25-9-2006 at 10:38 PM (post id: 2511390).



Please allow me to use this opportunity to make a few clarifying statements: My interpretations on Paul’s translation to immortality (1Cor. 15:51+) and Rapture (1Thes. 4:13-17) are the result of years and years of intense study, apart from the likes of Darby or anyone else. Indeed, I have never read Bible commentary from another human being that places our Rapture (1Thes. 4:17) 1000 years before the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24. I am also willing to bet nobody here can make connections between my interpretations and diagrams to the ministry of any other man or woman outside Scripture.

The common error of ‘all’ modern day Bible commentators is they mix the doctrinal components of 1Cor. 15 and 1Thes. 4 with the ‘end of the age’ events of Matthew 24 that take place 1000 years LATER. I fully expect to be forced into defending most everything in the OP by the ATS members holding the common Eschatological Interpretations of the Denominations. THAT is what we are here to ‘debate.’ However, I have no time at all for the scoffers and mockers unwilling to simply open their eyes and read these verses for themselves.

The world can always use more peacemakers like Sacrifice willing to patiently and gently encourage the scoffers into a more receptive state of mind. That is really a very nice thing for him/her to be doing. Thank you again.

Here is a basic diagram to help others understand my view:



From left to right: Your Old Testament is the “Holy of Holies” (spirit witness) of God’s Word that prophesied until John (Matt. 11:13). John the Baptist (Matt. 3:1-6), Christ (Matt. 4:17-23) and the Twelve (Matt. 10:5-7) all offered the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:24, 9:35, etc.) to Israel of the flesh and bring in the ‘water’ dispensation of Christ’s ‘two part’ (1John 5:6) ministry. However, Israel rejected God’s ‘three step’ (F+S+HS) offer and raised Paul up in the wake of Israel’s ‘transgression’ (Romans 11:11 = Matt. 17:12 + Acts 6+7 = Steven’s name = “Crown”). Paul’s conversion (Acts 9:15) began (first = protos = 1Tim. 1:15+16 = our ‘father in Christ through the gospel’ = 1Cor. 4:15) the “dispensation of God’s grace” (Eph. 3:2) that has persisted for the last 2000 years to this day. We are now living through the “Holy Place” (blood witness = 1John 5:6) of Scripture depicted by the 13 Epistles of the Apostle Paul.

The final event for ‘us’ is the Rapture (1Thes. 4:17), which closes the ‘blood’ witness part to ‘reopen’ the ‘late rains’ (James 5:7*) Kingdom Dispensation that was ‘cut off’ (Rev. 20:4 = 70 AD) for Peter and his Kingdom (Matt. 16:16-19), “bride” (John 3:29) Church. Do you see the two blue sections of the diagram? Those are the ‘early and late rains*’ parts sandwiching the current “dispensation of God’s grace” where the “mystery” (Eph. 5:32) body church (Col. 1:24) is growing to maturity (Eph. 4:11-13). The OT prophets can see into the “water” witness parts (13 NT Kingdom Epistles), but they see nothing inside the red “mystery” section where “The Mystery” (Eph. 3:3, Col. 1:26) is being “revealed.” Scripture is laid out in the precise manner as the Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple:



The 39 OT books (3x13) represent the Holy of Holies with all three witnesses into the one (1John 5:8). However, Paul’s blood witness had to come first, even though the mystery process (spirit + water = blood) forced God to offer the kingdom to Israel. The ‘two part’ bride is the product of God allowing the ‘heavenly places’ (now occupied by Satan’s armies = Eph. 6:12) to be restored ‘first’ through Paul’s ‘blood’ gospel and “Christ’s body” (1Cor. 12:27 = that’s us). We must take our seats in the heavenly places AFTER Satan is chained, so that Elijah can THEN come to restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11) during the blue (water witness) portion. The Book of Acts is the ‘veil’ witness that divides the Holy Place of Scripture (Pauline Epistles) from the Court (13 Kingdom Epistles), as this transitional book contains components of ‘both’ dispensations. This leaves 39 books in the OT and 26 books (13 +13) in the NT, with the Book of Acts separating Christ’s ‘water and blood’ ministries on earth. Our ‘Rapture’ (1Thes. 4:17) takes place to END this current “dispensation of God’s grace” and START the Kingdom Dispensation under Elijah that lasts the "1000 Years" of the “Day of the Lord.” Christ’s Matthew 24 events END the same 1000 Years Period that our Rapture STARTS. Modern day scholars have missed the mark by mixing the blood and water witnesses together to create a body of doctrine that God sent to NOBODY!

The things I have to show you are not just a secret to the Denominations, they are ‘abovetopsecret,’ because none of them even know about 'these things' (2Pet. 3:14-16). Once you learn to ‘rightly divide’ (2Tim. 2:15) the blood and water witnesses of your NT, then Scripture becomes alive and God's Spirit will lead you into the truth of all these things; and much more . . .

One key to understanding ‘the mystery,’ is that the topic is indeed “Infinite.” That means each member of Christ’s body has something truly amazing to show each and every one of his brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus that they would never figure out by themselves. I can help lead you into the basics of these things, but eventually down the road each of you will in return reveal something back to me that God has given to you through His Son and nobody else!

The scoffers should take Sacrifice's excellent advice and do enough research to allow the yoke of unbelief to fall from their necks. Unbelievers stand on the sidelines without the opportunity to even get into the game. : 0 )

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral

[edit on 26-9-2006 by Terral]

Hey Terral, is this about you?

Forums.com > Topics > Religion
Terral03 Has Been Banned From Posting Here
www.4forums.com...

Since your images are posted from i29.photobucket.com... I searched google and found terral03 all over the net.

Looks like you are spreading your message of hate wherever you can until you get banned.

OH, i found a nice posting by Terral (my apologies to the fine folk of Terral, OK) from Florida where he explains that's his real name and what he believes... insightful.
bibleforums.org...

I especially like this part: "The Admins locked my ‘gospel’ thread ( bibleforums.org... (bibleforums.org...) ) and suspended my ability to Private Message anyone and ask them why".

Hi Terral,

HOW ABOUT THE NAME OF YOUR god??????????

You just got one of my last WATS That was some good detective work friend

WuXia

Thanks for exposing the truth I knew that my gut feeling was right, that is what ATS conspiracy forum is all about.

Nobody can come into this forum and expect that their conspiracies will be taken as truth, we are here as members to unveil the conspiracies behind the conspiracies.

Flyers knew that also and she could no bite into it either.

This is what ATS is all about.

We deny ignorance if we can.